A discussion about a potential future mod, series thereof and/or poll to know which you might like

Modding
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Hello Discourse

After having played this game for a while and being amused by what’s already in the game, I couldn’t help but feel a bit deflated as I managed to get to the current end-game, as the game became too stale too quickly. Don’t get me wrong here; I don’t blame the devs, they’re hard at work giving us patches and new content already, but I felt the game lacked the feeling of epicness I’ve experienced with old city-builder games, like the Sierra games. Once you reach city tier, nothing but combat ever keeps you on your toes anymore.

As such, I naturally turned to mods as you normally do to slack such a thirst. Yet, even then… even with some of the amazing mods already out there, I still wasn’t satisfied. What I find I lack the most, is proper long term play (outside of combat) and a rewarding progression towards a far away end-game, that requires patience and fair planning. It’s not that I don’t think the game never will live up to my expectations, but what potential I see so far, has me very, very impatient :3

I have an ocean of ideas for improvements and I see a lot of people here have already had a lot of them, but!.. Instead of asking the devs to implement all our ideas, I’d rather turn to the modding community for this one. What I have in mind might not be what a lot (or even most) are looking for and might just be so ambitious that a lot of people could no longer run the game nearly as smoothly as they can the vanilla game. I’m not talking a little content here or a change there… I’m talking a total conversion mod (or at the very least a modpack so expansive it could just as well be considered one).

Since this will be a daunting task, I am fully aware this might just be my little modding project, but I wanted to ask the community if they were interested in this? And if the idea piqued the interest of other modders who might want to collaborate?

Any ideas or content posted for this mod will also serve as suggestions for our dear devs at Radiant, but I doubt most will make it into the main game, as some might be considered overkill for how casual the game otherwise appears to be intended to be (no offense intended towards anyone; devs or fans).

Ideas, content or fully integrated mods will belong to their respective artists/modders and must not be used without permission from the original creator(s). This also applies to me not using your content without being permitted to of course.

Now, as a side note… I will admit that I have absolutely zero experience coding (although I have done code-edits for .lua and .ini files of many games in the past, so I can at least understand a lot of it; just not write it from scratch). I don’t have any experience with voxel software either, although I’m somewhat familiar with bitmap editing and assume it’s the same, just in 3D (correct me if I’m wrong :P). Finally, what I CAN add, is many years experience in writing, written concept and thorough planning.

If any other modders out there feel cross that I’m basically ignoring their idea of the exact same thing(s), I apologize sincerely; for whatever reason, I’ve yet been unable to find anything about your attempt(s) and will gladly give them a look if you can direct me there. Even if your ideas are not quite the same, but you feel like collaborating, feel free to contact me any way you can and I will see if I can help or if your content fits the feel this modpack is to provide.

Uniformity is key for this modpack. Visual style will be as consistent as possible (likely just sticking to the vanilla style of the game). The general rules of what goes into it are going to be quite fluid until we (or I alone; if that’s the size of the ‘team’) decide on a final setting/style; I’d personally prefer a low-fantasy, which mostly just sticks to medieval (some early rennaisance for end-game) concepts, with some less realistic things, like the cleric class already in the game, fantasy races and such.

If you are still reading, I thank you and raise a glass in your honour. For those interested, here are some of my preliminary ideas for how I want to improve/change the game:

-Many additional (and altered) jobs, including a lot more specialization and need to plan out your ‘training investments’ more carefully (or be really, really patient); currently about 40 civilian ideas, plus several, fleshed out military jobs.

-Several of the jobs would be specialized resource gatherers, allowing more efficient economic fine-tuning.

-Addition of full-fledged, automated fishing and related content

-Addition of full-fledged brewing mechanics… all of them hic…

-Several new items, both class upgrades and, naturally, class talismans.

-Addition and rewriting of several ‘zones’ and their functions, allowing for a number of new automatic resource harvesting elements and avoiding your farmers doing all the gardens that your herbalist probably should have been focusing on :wink: Examples of this are: fishing areas (require water of course), herbalist’s patch, forestry zones (for wood and special ingredients) and hunter-gatherer zones (for early diverse food gathering).

-New resources, including: wickerwork materials, chemicals (for example niter for gunpowder), etc.

-Addition of a storage priority system if/however possible.

-Addition of a ‘local merchant’ mechanic; allowing your own people to sell off items of your choice. Exact mechanic functions not yet nailed down, but it could be solved through ‘crafting’ gold from a number of dummy recipes.

-Addition of a functional cart and/or mule entity, that can allow slow transportation of more goods over long distances. Includes a job intended for handling said entity.

-Increasing map area, pop cap and adding a way to attract more people faster (but with something to balance it up, like a very high lump sum cost)

-Adding player initiated event mechanics, like town festivals. These would often be quite costly, temporarily stop all productivity (maybe with exception of cooks and its variations), but would give a boost to mood and maybe lead to positive and/or negative interaction with off-map elements; whether friend or foe.

-Addition of new starting scenarios and loadouts.

-Addition of a relationship mechanic, allowing hearthlings to sleep under the same roof without penalties (maybe even being more happy for it).

-Addition of thief type enemies and potentially a stealth mechanic that makes it a necessity to stash your treasures out of reach and heavily guarded or keeping it insignificant enough that it doesn’t interest the buggers.

So… Does this interest anyone else? Have I made some impossible plans (I probably have :3)? Do you have even more juicy goodness that you’d like to see in such a modpack?

P.S.: Before anyone assumes I can pump this stuff out in a jiffy… yeah, no… sorry to disappoint. I’ve got a fair amount of free time on my hands, but the vast majority of it goes to story-writing on other things, including a recently started original pen-and-paper setting I need to advance at a reasonable pace and occasionally gamemaster for.

  • I would like to see this done as a total conversion mod.
  • I like some of the ideas and would like to see them as individual mods.
  • I like the premise, but want it quite differently (Please input how as a reply).
  • I like the idea, but think you’re overly ambitious (Such criticism is fine, I assure you).
  • No, I don’t think any of this is necessary (Ouch, my pride; thanks for your vote though :wink: )
  • I don’t even understand what it is you’re trying to do…

0 voters

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2 Likes
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Lots of cool ideas, but I’m not sure how possible they are myself :stuck_out_tongue:

There’s some that I know people have attempted before, so I know they’re definitely somewhat possible, and you might want to look at them for inspiration.

Have you looked at the Archipelago Mod yet? It has a fisher class, and if it’s not set up how you want, it might still be worth looking at.

This mod had its cart act like any other storage item. However, some model settings when the item was carried could have made it look like it was properly being pushed. I’d still love to see an overhaul hehe of hauling like you suggest rather than just visual touches, though.

You might have already seen the Brewery mod, but it might be good inspiration to build off of - it would be cool to see drinks with buffs and debuffs again, though I don’t know how much further you’re wanting to take your brewing.

3 Likes
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Ay, I’m fully aware of the Archipelago mod (using it myself for a while) and I fully plan to eventually collaborate with modders like BrunoSupremo if he’s interested. However (yes, that dreaded word), the idea I had for how fishing should function is quite different and I think it needs to be, if it is ever going to be a system of automatic resource gathering. I will probably PM him a little later to discuss some of my ideas, in case he can use the ideas himself and/or wants in on this :stuck_out_tongue: .

I must admit I passed this one by; thought it was only a differently styled chest. I see that some attempt was made to make it look towable, but what I’m intending is an entirely seperate entity that doesn’t move on its own, has storage space like a hearthling (although more of course) and can be interacted with by hearthlings; both for taking/giving and towing. Of course this means a completely new AI and adding elements to worker AIs as well.

Hard to miss such a good mod :wink: , but yes, it is already quite like I imagine. I’m hoping to eventually collaborate with (or at least get a little help from) Froggy and Wiese2007 in the future. Part of the problem I see with such mods, is a need for overhauling the jobs. At this moment the cook simple has to much to do and if the crafting stations are far apart for aesthetic reasons (as in you actually having separate mill, bakery, inn/tavern/pub, etc.), then you lose waaay~ too much efficiency with them.

In short, my proposed overhaul is for instance to make metropolitan ideas viable in terms of gameplay. To make everything work together, I might not be able to use any of the mods out there as they are now. I also realize keeping this entire thing up to date will be a nightmare, but I accept that challenge.

Anyways, thank you for the reply. I’m glad to see that my thought dump wasn’t entirely wasted :slight_smile: .

2 Likes
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@Relyss - I didn’t quite intend for this to be the actual modding thread, more of a ‘feeling the waters’ kind of post. If you still think it belongs here however, then thank you for correcting my mistake :slight_smile: .

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Making models and putting them into the game is very easy, it’s just getting things to work as you want them to that can be touch and go sometimes.

1 Like
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Modding discussion / ideas / tutorials / questions belong to the modding category. We try to keep everything related to the game in appropiate categories although sometimes they are inclassifiable :sweat_smile:

We have other categories for actual / implemented mods. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Most forums dedicated to something like this tend to be quite specific, I just hadn’t figured out your sorting system :worried: . Anyways, thank you for the correction. It should allow the right people to see it now anyway.

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Hello there, I’m happy to share my ideas.
First, the merchant’s stall is useless and needs improving. There should be a mechanism to attract better merchants, through building certain types of building, and/or reaching a high net worth.
This would have 2 functions:
-improving trade
-more reasons to build more and expand the town post-township, in order to attract better traders.

A merchant class could fit very well with these elements, so the level of the merchant should be one of the requirements for attracting better traders.
Simply put, this should be made into a trading mod.

For more detailled ideas:
-I don’t see a reason why the blacksmith shouldn’t be able to make gold coins. My idea is that a level 6 blacksmith unlocks the recipe to a minting station (the thing where they make the coins i guess) and the recipe to “print” gold coins. Ofc for the money to be acceptable you must have a township and some other requirement to be able to make the coins.

But because that’s a late game thing, you need to add something for your town to spend money on.
Like maybe building extra large structures fast by “recruiting” temporary workers for a Lot of coins

Well that’s it for now.

2 Likes
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I like the idea of a full trading expansion to all this and agree that the merchant job class could tie into how it works quite well. However…

Minting can’t just be freely done today for a lot of reasons and the same applies to the middle ages. The setting already implies that you are making a township that technically belongs to royalty (that you just barely interact with at all though), so printing money on your own would be quite illegal, if we are talking realism. There is also balancing issues to deal with, since it would be so very easy to just cheese your way through the rest of the game, when you get a smith to max and find a suitable ore vein (depending on the metal/alloy necessary).

Don’t get me wrong though, I’m not saying minting would be a bad implementation, but we’d need to be really, really careful to not break the feeling of progression (which the game already lacks late-game imo; something that I’m trying to add with this/these mods) and potentially desirable realism (or at least pseudo-realism).

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Yeah maybe minting isn’t such a good idea. But still trading will need a lot of improving and untill we get a trading update, I think a trading mod is a good essential mod project. Mainly working on new items and implementing item value in the random merchants , so that they don’t look stupid. Also I think you should get better deals the more you level up your merchant. Now that’s an addition to realism

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As I said, minting is not exactly a bad idea, just something we’d need to be careful about how we implement. To expand a little on your idea, we could potentially have merchants sell and buy at random and often unfavourable values, making them more reliable and averaging out to be more favourable the higher level merchants you had. I think reliable prices are more likely (eg. realistic) from experienced merchants than better prices. Experience in haggling can only take you so far.

Hmm… That gave me another idea. We could have prices be modified by the active merchant’s stats, since charisma and smarts tend to be more likely to get you good prices.

Most of these ideas won’t actually have a big impact on the game though, since likely we’d always be rounding up or down to the nearest whole number, but it’d make a hopefully impactful late-game implement for the people that like to min-max.

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Yeah the reliable price idea is better than low price, I guess I was thinking about skyrim, which is not a good model for realism. But well, I think this element is mostly immersive than anything else. I wanna start a game where I’m aiming for a thriving merchant town, and get the feeling that I’m doing actual trade.
Also, great idea for the charisma thing.
I really think this could make a great mod.

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Pardon me everyone if you think I lack patience, but I wouldn’t mind getting a tally of “Yays” and “Nays” to figure out if this is something that other people than myself are interested in seeing done. If the turnout is too small or I get an overwhelming number of “Nays”, then I might just dump my ideas for others to use and perhaps work on it as a personal project at some point, but if the opposite is true, I’ll do what I can to get the ball rolling at the very least.

1 Like
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First off, pardon the double posting. I’m well aware it’s a practice that is frowned upon in most forums, but I don’t feel like this belongs in the OP, nor did it fit in with the last message; it’s simply a clarification I feel needs to be made :pensive:.

The reason why I consider this a total conversion mod, is because the way I see it, most of the ideas require, or at least benefit heavily from, a complete overhaul of the current job classes (and by extension, crafting lists), zones, perhaps some AIs and likely a few other bits and bobs. This will make this mod entirely incompatible with many other mods AT FIRST, which I desire to eventually remedy, by cooperating with other mod makers to make derivative mods (of theirs) that ARE compatible. This incompatibility will stem from some elements being referenced no longer existing with this mod installed (or at least being bypassed), which with guarantee will cause weird UI glitches or game-breaking script errors.

Furthermore, I’m not just thinking of making this in a vanilla setting. Something like a steam punk, renaissance, viking, post-apoc., etc. setting is quite possible as well; in fact I’d personally prefer it or even a multi-tier setting (like going from medieval to renaissance over the course of a game), but the original mod(s) will likely stick to the vanilla theme, just to at the very least provide a proof of concept.

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You got some cool ideas - and, if possible, I would gladly lend a hand. I say “if possible” to note that I may not hold the skill-level required to help with this project.

I just recently started looking at how to create models and how to make a simple mod.

  • Consider me a low-level coder; I don’t know how to pull of most of the ideas you’re suggesting.
  • But I think I understand the basics of model-making; given som directions I should be able to stick to the “vanilla feel” I’d say.

So, basically, I would be happy to help with some model-making once/if there are some directives at what models need to be created.
If other coders of this project want someone to discuss ideas/problems with, I’d be happy to help, too; but I don’t think I would be able to pull any coding of on my own.

1 Like
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Absolutely freaking awesome :smiley:. You’re probably still more experienced at coding than I am :sweat_smile:, so don’t worry about skill-level at this point in time; getting the idea ‘approved’ in the first place will be the biggest hurdle imo.

Regarding how to pull them off, I think I’m getting a quite solid idea about how to structure code and have been suggested to become scrum-master at a few occasions already (pardon the potentially perceived arrogance, but it’s a point of personal pride for me :smirk_cat:) and regularly talk with professional coders (both front-end and rear-end developers), so I might just be able to guide you to what needs writing… I just can’t write it myself… Dunno any code language even remotely well enough at this point in time.

EDIT: Also, I’d like to note that I will probably make a full development ‘system’ elsewhere on the web if we get started. I tend to use Google Groups and other Google tools to share everything. The reason for this is the fact that I tend to write waaaay~ too much according to many of my friends and the forum doesn’t quite support the level of ‘bundling’ of WIP assets as I think will be necesary. This also means that the ‘directives’ you were referring to, will be aplenty and, I hope, more than specific enough for you to get started, albeit with a fair degree of artistic freedom.

1 Like
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Sounds good imo - so for now, I’ll await further notice :slight_smile:

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Well… It’s now been about a week since I put up the poll. My hope was that the turnout would be quite a bit higher already, I will not lie, so I will let it go on for another week, just in case there are more who can chew themselves through the tl;dr and are willing to leave their opinion.

Since bumping threads are forbidden in this forum I refrained from it, which I think in itself might be the problem as the thread was too low on the ‘recent’ list. As such… If you have any more questions or suggestions, please fire away. A livelier discussion means more people seeing it and by extension more votes (hopefully), which in turn makes it more likely that this project will happen.

Should the turnout not increase by a fair amount, I don’t think I’m going to go forward with the idea (publicly) and will likely just dump my ideas on the forum for all other modders to use; either fully or for inspiration.

FOR CLARIFICATION: This was not me trying to make anyone feel bad, a hostage negotiation or anything of the likes, merely me saying it how it is. If a lot of people would want this, then I’d make it a top (or near top) priority, forsaking other personal projects and such for the duration of making this, but if this is not in the interest of a satisfactory amount, then I simply just have more important things to do :expressionless:.

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I recommend just start doing something small and grow it over time.

For example

I would never started working in the Archipelago if I had planned doing all I have now right from the start. I only started on it because back them the plan/goal was very simple, a map with water, that was it.
No trees, plants, animals, monster, classes, quests, decorations. My past self would simple ignore the current mod cause it would be overwhelming for him, too much work to do. (I still have no idea how I got so far with it…)

I recommend starting preferably with a mod area that is not already covered by many other mods (e.g. decorations mods are the majority). That is because filling an area that lacks content will make you mod stand out, then with a large userbase (and with ideas and feedback from them) you can grow it easier into a bigger mod covering other areas.

Don’t wait for feedback to start, else you might never start.

4 Likes
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I think the timing is a thing aswell, it is vacation time for many and it seems that feedback is hard to get, if the players are away from their computers?
One thing i would love to see as a mod, is some armor! maybe even weapons? maybe that thief type enemy could be a starting point?

The fisherman class could also be a stand alone mod and from that you could expand onto that zone mod?

I would love to see another player in the modsection of the discourse!
And as usual, if i can help with models or feedback, just give me a message :merry:

1 Like