On upgrading my save game to A16, i found that iron coifs are gone, which is sad because I was using them as part of my footsoldier’s uniforms. pls bring back
They were removed and will not be brought back into the game. I don’t know the details but this has been discussed already. They still exist but only with traders.
iron coifs got replaced by a more conventional iron helmet.
personally i would love to see coifs brought back as an upgrade to the archers hood, along with a leather hood, so that they would have: base green cloth hood>leather hood>iron coif… psst @sdee, is that a plausible idea?
Sounds like a good idea and it more matches what it would have been like in a more medieval timeframe.
I think it would be a good idea to give archers some armor. Something along the lines “the more profesional they are the more armor they wear”.
It could be cloth (or default) for lvl 1, leather for lvl 2 and mail armor for lvls 3-6.
It would give them an edge against enemy archers and more survivality, should they get caught in melee, until the help arrives.
Also It would fit better with the real medieval archers. Profesional archers were very valued by army commanders and were protected accordingly.
Rookies or levies (lvls 1-2) were not given any armor. They were banded together and used as light archers.
Veterans and profesionals (lvls 3-6), on the other hand, were given armor adapted to their role as archers. And quite heavy, usually mail, brigandine or lamelar.
I have considered lvl 3 as the first professional lvl because it is were the hearthlings usually specialize, change professions or get better weapons.
What do you think?
Have Fun, Kyth.
I love your fantasy but please don’t present it as facts. Most medieval soldiers had to equip themselves with armour, so most soldiers wouldn’t have had any, especially not mail, as that was very expansive.
So yes, for Stonehearth I like the idea, but it has nothing to do with historical accuracy.
@Reedo You should actually check your sources before posting and answer like that. Not only is it inappropiate but also false.
It is not fantasy, it is truth. Armor was very expensive and that is why there were not many professional or standing armies. Also, soldiers had to equip themselves in feudal societies but not on other societies. Please do check your sources again. Not all the medieval world was feudal.
Have fun, Kyth.
Ps: I’m also wondering how comes that everytime I post an opinion lately, since the Sweihänder posts in @8BitCrab thread, you post something in answer.
Actually, @Reedo while you are right, so is Kythandra. Mounted infantry, like knights or really any contemporary cavalrymen, were usually noblemen and so could afford heavy armors like plate. Sometimes, local men were called in to fight for their lord - these men were peasants or farmers, and were indeed usually lightly armored or unarmored. They would be carrying everyday tools, but some might be able to afford (or make) a shortsword, helmet, shield, et cetera. If the situation was dire enough, they could and would be outfitted by their lord.
As the times progressed, and urban cities began to emerge, there was a greater supply of manpower, and usually those men were middle-class and had some skill with swords and armor. Lower-class men were relegated to the positions of archers and skirmishers, as they would not be able to afford expensive equipment that was standard for infantry.
However, there came a time when a lord or king would need more than just the basic missile support provided by a hunting, composite, or recurve bow. The longbow is perhaps most renknown as an English speciality weapon. This bow required literally a year or more of training for use. The results were devastating as most skilled longbowmen could shoot accurately pretty much as far as a modern-day gun. As such, longbow units were a high-priority target for the enemy to take down, and needed protection. This is where - like Kyth said - veterans and professional archers would wear heavier armor to protect themselves. An average longbowman would wear an iron or metal surcoat under a padded doublet, and would carry a shortsword or long dagger for close protection. On the other hand, other archers, no matter how skilled, would not be worthy enough to warrant better armor - unless they could afford it.
Haha, didn’t even realize I always answer you, i just post always stuff on the forums. Be assured, I don’t search for you or something^^
I was referring to european medieval armies, as that is where stonehearth’s main inspiration seems to come from. Please tell me one example of a european standing army (or any army really) in which archers were equipped with armour.
Obviosly if you go to Japan, you have Samurai, who used a bow and an armour, as did some north-west asian tribes, like the mongolians. They seem to be very far away from stonehearth though.
Yes, longbowmen were both highly trained and good archers, but I cannot find any proof of them wearing armour. Yes, helmets became very common, especially in the later middle ages, but full armour for any non-noble infantry was never a thing, as far as I know.
Indeed were helmets common, often open-faced bascinets with aventails to cover the neck/shoulder area. While most archers (longbowmen included) would wear a gambeson for light body protection, more elite units or those who would be nearer to the fighting would wear a mail-link shirt along with. As the fifteenth century rolled around, some infantry and even some archers would come to wear a jack or brigandine cuirass.
Now, back on topic for however short or long a moment, I do like the idea of archers upgrading to mail armor - while it isn’t entirely historically accurate (to a degree), tougher, meaner, and deadlier monsters in fantasy would warrant better protection for all. Perhaps, there could be different types of armor - lighter for better speed, heavier for better protection?
As I said, i support the idea in Stonehearth too. But different armour for different needs will be difficult, as soldiers always auto-equip the highest armour-value item they can find… perhaps sometime in the future. (Though I seem to remember a dev response stating that they don’t want to change the equip system…)
Infantry, yes. Archers… i don’t know. I’m still not convinced.
Strange, because I thought I had seen somewhere that in the future, they would let players manually equip their soldiers. Well, if they don’t, I’d be a little disappointed. I can see there being no point if they don’t add variable stats for different types of weapons other than just an increasing damage/armor value.
I never said I was speaking only about european armies. Right now Stonehearth has two different races. The ascendancy is inspired by Medieval Europe but Rayya’s children certainly are not.
There has not been many standing armies in medieval Europe, The best and biggest example would be the Byzantine army. And this one did have mail armoured archers.
Other standing armies appeared much much later. The Janissary of the Ottoman Empire also included armoured archers.
Anyway we shouldn’t derrail this thread anymore, you are right. We should create a new thread for this kind of discussion.
Back on topic, I would also like to see a complete mail armor with its lovely coif back in the game.
Have Fun, Kyth.
Hm… while I agree that Rayya’s children are certainly not middle european, ALL soldiers and weaponry in the game so far are definitely inspired by said european culture and armies. I would love to see some orient/byzantine things included for Rayya’s children, since the armour and stuff they have now doesn’t really fit well with them…
Agreed. I would like a lot to see more cultural equipment for the Rayyan’s. And more items in general in the game that are particular for each race/culture. Things restricted to them and that other races can only get through trade.
Have fun Kyth.
I just can’t wait until the Northmen’s Alliance! Holy crap, I would play them like Vikings SOOO hard! Hopefully, they come at a time where you can make boats and sail through rivers/lakes/oceans, and raid little villages… oh man, I don’t think that’s what they have planned for the Alliance but I would really love to see that!
I’m not sure how much this has been discussed, but kind of like what you said Kyth - I think that things should change across the faction, but pretty much be the same. For example, while the Ascendancy would have the iron coif (or now the iron helmet), Rayya’s Children would have an iron kettle or conical helmet over a hood or something, and the Northmen could have an iron spangenhelm or the stereotypical horned cap.
I thought dwarves would be the third race, not nordmen? I’m happy for nordmen though, don’t like dwarves^^
And yes, more race-specific armours would be awesome. There are really cool looking persian/byzanteen armours, they would just need to be re-skins of the stuff we have and I’d be happy.
Vikings have one issue: they are basically the pre-decessors to the guys we have now, so the armour would have to be weaker, in theory.
the northmen’s alliance are the third human kingdom, there will also be dwarves.
as @Kythandra already pointed out earlier, this discussion is getting super derailed, if you wish to continue discussions the about the historical accuracy and such, please start a new topic