Question about the development of armour

As it is in typical RPGs, light armour is generally considered “good in its own way”, and is faster, or some classes can only equip light armour, or stuff like that. in real life, however, light armour was just “cheaper armour”, with heavy armour being better in every way, and not restricting movement like people often think (such as full plate mail weighing no more than a modern soldier’s backpack, and chainmail restricting movement more than plate armour). So far, this game seems to be following closer to reality with several aspects, and so I’m wondering about how armour is going to pan out.

the reason archers and such used light armour at best during the middle ages was because chances are, they were not going to enter into close combat, and if they did, they would generally be considered dead, as their training went into bows, not swords. as heavier armour was expensive to make and used a lot of valuable ores, archers and the like never really had better than hide armour, MAYBE some leather or chain at the best. if they had more access to such armours, archers would more likely have had heavier armour on. in fact, crossbowmen did have heavy armour (partially due to the fact that they were practically indistinguishable from regular footmen with the sole exception of the use of a crossbow, which didn’t take much training to use).

I’d like to know if, in the future, stonehearth will go down the typical RPG route where archers can only wear “light” class armour, horses only “medium”, and foot soldiers/knights only “heavy” armour, or if it’s going to follow a more realistic approach where, if you have a ton of steel, then you can easily supply your archers with full plate, should you so wish.

I have other questions as well, but many of them I’ve already asked in other topics, and so I probably shouldn’t repeat myself. Thank you in advance.

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good questions, and i definitely would love to hear TRs thoughts on this.

its not bad to repeat yourself, especially since not everyone will see those other posts/questions :wink:

well I said that because often times those questions were in the suggestions board already, such as when I suggested making it so a lvl 0 footman could not weild a bone axe, in addition to creating training dummies. as it’s already a suggestion, it’d be rather cocky of me to then turn around and ask “hey are you doing what I asked you to do?” lol

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it would depend upon the wording, but i do understand :laughing:

I wouldn’t mind the option of using any weight type, but I think there might need to be some sort of limitation in the game just to keep it a little more interesting. Maybe the ability to equip heavier armor classes could be a level perk, and the melee classes reach it a little faster due to their higher number of close-quarter encounters preparing them for the extra weight.

As I said in the Feedback on Combat thread, I’m hoping that there’s lots of perks and characteristics attached to weapon and armor classes for greater diversity in gameplay. Otherwise, everyone will just push straight to whatever has the highest damage output or resistance to attacks. I’m starting to see this with the weapon choices the blacksmith currently has; Unless I’ve only found copper and tin and no iron, I don’t even bother with bronze equipment.


yea, in a suggestion topic I suggested limiting weapons to certain levels, as I find getting a lucky bone axe from the trader for a measely 10 mean beds to be silly, as my 1 soldier becomes untouchable, even though they were just then made into a soldier. making it so they must reach a higher level before equipping better weapons (and, I guess, better armour too, while we’re at it) would be nice.

which also led to me bringing up training dummies, because it takes a long time for even a lone soldier just to reach level 1 by killing the 2-3 goblins/skeletons every day, even with the war on the goblin camp. if I were to suddenly get attacked by a dragon, it’d be nice to have that bone axe actually be usable, but being able to use it on day 1 (or, rather, day 2, according to the journal lol) is a bit silly.

oh, but as for differences between ore types with weapons, I don’t necessarily agree. a shortsword is a shortsword. I think at level 1, a soldier should be able to use a shortsword, and can’t use a longsword until level 2, but if they can use a bronze sword, they should be able to use a steel sword as well, as fundamentally there aren’t any major differences. the blacksmith can’t make steel tools right away, copper and tin are widely available, and by the time you get to the point where your blacksmith can finally make steel tools, you’re already being overrun by goblins and the undead (or you would be if they were actually formidable in any way. they seem to be oddly passive right now). when it gets to the point that we will be wanting to arm 10 soldiers rather than just 1 or 2, it’s easier to make 10 sets of bronze gear than it is to make 10 sets of steel gear, and you can make it as soon as you get the blacksmith. maybe they’ll tweak it so the blacksmith levels much slower, forcing players to craft bronze gear because the blacksmith can’t make better gear. that way, newer soldiers will gain the benefit of steel swords on the 2nd year, and not be forced to use out-dated tools, just because they don’t have the xp. they can’t weild the mighty B& hammer, sure, but they should be able to weild a short sword just fine, regardless of what it was made of.

unless it was made of unobtanium. they can’t weild that.

armour, on the other hand, sure, limit it to ore types. as it is right now, there is no progression within ore types, and only 1 armour piece per tier. there isn’t “steel chain, steel chestplate, steel full plate”, but rather “bronze chestplate, iron chestplate, steel chestplate”. because there’s no distinction between armour types, that will have to be limited by ore type. lvl 1 soldier wields bronze, lvl 2 wields iron, etc.


The issue with restricting weapons/armor to level is that there’s no way to increase level beyond murdering tons of goblins. And if you’ve murdered tons of goblins, you’ve won what little challenge is currently present. Longer-term, there should be more room for progression as more fighting earns you the levels to equip better gear - which you then need to face the larger enemies your bloodshed has caused to appear, via the “game-master” system.

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that’s why I said to also include training dummies, to allow your soldiers to level up over time, although the leveling would be slower than actual fighting, but with no threat of them dying.

also, I understand that at-present, there is no threat greater than the goblins, and when you reach the point that you can deal with goblins and skeletons without worry, then you’ve pretty much conquered the land already. my suggestion to have level-based gear is, at least somewhat, aimed at the future.

that said, at the moment, the goblins and skeletons are no threat, as even with no more than a single troop and no blacksmith, I can easily arm that single troop with a bone axe and bronze armour, making them untouchable to all current threats, and they haven’t even reached level 1. I have no need for more than 1 soldier, either, as they can easily run from one edge of my city to the other long before even a single hearthling gets so much as touched by them. and once I get a blacksmith, I can just make him craft nothing but steel to level him up, and then immediately switch to steel gear without even bothering with any of the other gear, making my already OP rookie that much more invincible. there’s no threat to my survival when a fresh recruit can easily kill the strongest enemies present through a lucky trade or the slightest bit of planning.

ah, this topic is getting derailed.

this topic wasn’t so much over the suggestion to add training dummies and lock gear to a minimum level, I was asking about what they plan to do with armour. much of the game seems to follow reality, more-or-less, and so I was hoping that they would go the more realistic approach and allow any class of soldier to equip any type of gear (should the player have the resources to do so), as most other games treat armour as “heavy armour is slow but strong, light armour is fast but weak, archers are too weak to use heavy armour” when in reality that isn’t the case, aside from heavy armour being better than light armour.

Well there is already the muscel value with each hearthling, that could be used to limit the armour/ wapon use/ equiping.

In addition how about not give the hearthlings their full atributes at the biginning and make them scale with lvls and their talentpoints.
Level 0 values could be done like this: personal talent * 5 ±3 (+100 for speed)

When you lvl. up in a profession you get atribute growth based on the talent numbers as a hearthling plus a little modifier depending on which profession the hearthling evolved in.
It would be possible to represent the modifier with profession specific talent point like,
Carpenter: Mind: 3 Body: 2 Spirit: 0 (Total:5)
Footman: Mind: 0 Body:3 Spirit:2 (Total:5)
Trapper: Mind: 2 Body:1 Spirit:2 (Total:5)

A hearthling with Mind: 4 Body:2 Spirit:6 could have a diffrent atribute growth depeding on what profession he does.

growth per lvl:
Mind atributes: 7 (4 from person + 3 from profession)
Body atributes: 4 (2 from person + 2 from profession)
Spirit atributes: 6 (6 from person + 0 from profession)

Mind atributes: 4 (4 from person + 0 from profession)
Body atributes: 5 (2 from person + 3 from profession)
Spirit atributes: 8 (6 from person + 2 from profession)

Mind atributes: 6 (4 from person + 2 from profession)
Body atributes: 3 (2 from person + 1 from profession)
Spirit atributes: 8 (6 from person + 2 from profession)

This would pan out like this:

Bill: Mind: 4 Body:2 Spirit:6
Carpenter lvl: 0 => 1 => 6

Mind: person,4 profession,3
Diligiance: 23(4 x 5 ±3) => 30 (23 + 4 + 3) => 65 (23+ 6 (4+3))
Curiositi: 21 (4 x 5 ±3) => 28 (21 + 4 + 3) => 63 (21+6
Dilligiance: 20(4 x 5 ±3) => 27 (20 + 4 + 3) => 62 (20+6*(4+3))

Body: person,2 profession,2
Muscel: 12 (2 x 5 ±3) => 16 (12+2+2) => 36 (12+6*(2+2))
Speed: 108(2 x 5 ±3 +100) => 112 (108+2+2) => 132 (108+6*(2+2))
Stamina:10 (2 x 5 ±3) => 14 (10+2+2) => 34 (10+6*(2+2))

Spirit: person,6 profession,0
Currage: 29 (6 x 5 ±3) => 35 (29+6+0) => 65 (29+6*(6+0))
Willpower: 34(6 x 5 ±3) => 40 (34+6+0) => 70 (34+6*(6+0))
Compassion: 31(6 x 5 ±3) => 37 (31+6+0) => 67 (31+6*(6+0))

I got a bit excited about this :smile:

Well anyway I could picture a system like this and it would enable scaling armour and waponsystems just based on the Hearthlings muscle value.
But I have not included multiple profession lvling. you might need to take away the stat growth ablity if a herthling reaches a lvl. for the second time with a diffrent profession.

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this is actually really well thought-out. I didn’t even think of using hearthling attributes themselves to base equipment on, nor having jobs provide hearthlings with abilities. it is true that a carpenter that used to be a soldier and a blacksmith would be much stronger than another person who went straight into carpentry.

that said… this thread is still meant to be a development question, and not really a suggestion thread ^_^;

the idea is nice though. you should make a thread in the suggestion category for jobs increasing hearthling abilities, allowing veterans to retain some abilities from previous professions (not skills, but stats). this would add an entirely new field of strategy by allowing people to make better craftsmen by allowing them to experience multiple trades. go ahead and make a suggestion thread for this.

@8BitCrab help my train is flying off the rails and I can’t get it to land! lol

i actually dont know how to help… @SteveAdamo what actions should be taken when a thread gets far to derailed?

In the past @SteveAdamo has just taken the offending posts and shifted them into their own topic, so that both conversations can continue unimpeded…

indeed… :thumbsup:

as I haven’t read through this thread, @8BitCrab, feel free to just pluck those that have derailed and add them to a new topic…

or, if @Ridesdragons prefers, let’s just request from this point on, to stay on point:wink:


Atralane the conductor here. Let’s talk about non-ore potentials of armo(u)r to get back to the discussion.

One thing I don’t remember being discussed (extremely in-depth) too much in terms of armor possibilities is things besides metal. Sure, we have early-tier fabric-based types, but since Stonehearth clearly isn’t based in the realms of the real world, it stands that unique world materials can be used in the forging of goods and equipment.

So, a couple of possibilities!

  • Elder Wood/Petrified Wood (biome-specific resources)
    I mentioned in a thread about world generation that one unique biome I’d like to see is some sort of massive forest, possibly petrified (World Gen Variation Ideas). This–like the basic forest biome–wouldn’t be tremendously close to mountain ranges, meaning ore acquisition would be limited. The wood from these trees could be a stronger natural wood resource, giving more attribute possibilities for variation. For example, the wood is maybe only about as strong as iron, give or take, but since it isn’t a conductive metal, it has much better resistance to electric-based attacks (assuming such element affinities are added to the base game). This would give multiple paths of armor to choose from and offer more reasons to settle in different areas of the world.
  • (biome-specific, cont.) Nautical Resources
    Again, a long-term possibility (development-wise), but it’d make aquatic realms even more fun and desirable. Instead of relying on forests and mountains, armor could be made from palm, driftwood, shells, and salvaged goods. Maybe some of these would be more akin to the resource-switching seen currently in fabric production (silkweed versus wool), but maybe there’s a way that the unique resources could be visually represented.
  • Magic Objects/Ores/Jewels
    We already know magic is planned and potentially dangerous, so why not have some high-risk, high-reward armors tapping into the arcane? The effects could include things like high damage for increased received damage, fast, weak armor, or even armor that makes the unit so powerful, anything around it takes continuous damage just from its activation.

So, these are just a few ideas to start our with! Most of these concepts bank on new biome and world generation, so I’m hoping we’ll see some of that soon for increased resources and settling opportunities.


well darn, i haven’t got the time to read through the entire thing either :laughing:

it’s fine, so long as it stays on point from here lol