Sungai Tribe Mod (Full Tribal Conversion)

[Xavion]

Baby Factories!!! Seriously though they could be an effective strategy, you get your male champion or whatever to go around getting super warrior babies out of all the female combat units. I suggest you fi that by having some kind of inbreeding counter as otherwise you could even get multiple generations out of one ultimate warrior and that’s starting to push things a bit if he’s the father of 90% of your combat units across 3 generations. Works both ways with genders it’s just that males don’t have the chance to die on having a kid so it’s more effective.

So now for other stuff. Why does scout come from carpenter? seems kind of weird. What kind of time frame would you be predicting for lives and time till kids? because having to play for like 5hrs for our first t3 could be nasty but if they die in that long it could be annoying as well, balancing through play thing I reckon. Is there anyway at all to get t3 other than the correct t2 parents? something like training as a kid and/or stat dependency could be good to consider as it would make the system much more forgiving. What is special about the dupe t2s (farmer, carpenter) compared to the rest and their t1s?. Any super classes going to pop up like the magma smith or engineer seem to be for vanilla?. How do you make Talismans??!?!?

Are these the complete stat list? What do they all do?
Coordination, Stamina, Strength, Charisma, Agility, Intelligence, Wisdom

And as for your 3 questions

1. Seems to mostly make sense to me.
2. It seems alright, still needs work and will definitely need balancing from play but is seems like it should be kinda cool.
3. I can’t really judge as I prefer complicated puzzles that through you in the deep end with barely any help. But it seems like it should work.

Note: To achieve super cool, awesome, or similar such ratings from me is fairly easy. Add programming and/or mindbreaking complexity allowance. Automation is also a plus.

[randomqazplm]

wow you’ve made a lot of stuff, looking forward to this mod

[GrimMethod]

Well I have to be getting REALLY close to something workable if most of the stuff @Xavion has questions about is intricate gameplay stuff haha.

@Xavion

Baby Factories!!! Seriously though they could be an effective strategy, you get your male champion or whatever to go around getting super warrior babies out of all the female combat units. I suggest you fi that by having some kind of inbreeding counter as otherwise you could even get multiple generations out of one ultimate warrior and that’s starting to push things a bit if he’s the father of 90% of your combat units across 3 generations. Works both ways with genders it’s just that males don’t have the chance to die on having a kid so it’s more effective.

That’s a pretty good idea; I think our current thinking is that once you pair two people up it’s kind of like a tribal marriage and they would stay together until death? Not sure if that would be too limiting but with retired tribesmen being turned back into “workers” you would have a “worker bee” pool that recycles which means you could class up more of your villagers without too much fear of not having anyone to do the grunt work.

@Xavion

Why does scout come from carpenter?

That one is a bit misleading as it’s really the only one now that starts in tier 2; I might just put him in Tier 1 and have him progress through Tier 2 without a name change. He doesn’t really “upgrade” from the Carpenter he just comes from any Villager and the Carpenter makes the thing you give to turn a villager into a Scout.

@Xavion

What kind of time frame would you be predicting for lives and time till kids? because having to play for like 5hrs for our first t3 could be nasty but if they die in that long it could be annoying as well, balancing through play thing I reckon.

Aye that would be something that we really have to fine tune through gameplay right now we don’t really have numbers for that part; that will have a bit to do with the max levels for our classes I think as well. I’m thinking I want to separate age from level; so that way you could get a Master Warrior (Max Level) but you could continue to push him beyond that he wouldn’t gain more levels but his stats would still increase. That would give you the option to really fine tune and go for that even bigger reward; as they should be somewhat into their “Prime” age wise when they hit max level the more you push for stats the higher risk they’re going to die.

@Xavion

Is there anyway at all to get t3 other than the correct t2 parents? something like training as a kid and/or stat dependency could be good to consider as it would make the system much more forgiving.

I think our group had some mixed ideas; programmer thought we were talking about stat dependencies which caused quite a confusing discussion yesterday when I typed that up. A friend of mine and I figured the stats would just be a nice bonus and the key was master level class pairings; I thought age and level was separate and I don’t think that’s how he is thinking. As it’s laid out now there would be two random inherited T2 classes from a T3 pairing of the possible 4 so a T3 can make more T3’s but it wouldn’t be a guarantee and might not be the same but pairing two T3’s of the same class would most likely yield another T3 of that class; they would also have to be Master level I think? Otherwise it might be too easy to get more T3’s. Might look into stat dependencies (programmer would probably love that) but I don’t know how that would work with percent based stat bonuses; I actually don’t know how those will work in general they could be too strong. I’m hoping it won’t continue being additive in that you would have to continue pushing past the normal limit to keep making it additive; possibly risking the entire bloodline. They’d be somewhat older when they started having kids and thus a risk right from the start and if you only had one good one with a decent percent and he gets waxed; then maybe dad/mom dies from a freak accident or just passes on poof that bloodline is gone; that sounds harsh but it should be a risk for pushing for more stats.

@Xavion

What is special about the dupe t2s (farmer, carpenter) compared to the rest and their t1s?. Any super classes going to pop up like the magma smith or engineer seem to be for vanilla?. How do you make Talismans??!?!?

The Farmer and Carpenter just kind of progress into Tier 2 without a name change; I see them as integral to your city and you should always have some around. They would just start unlocking T2 type recipes and keep getting better throughout their career; most likely an Inherited Carpenter would have all the recipes of his parent when he turned into a Carpenter. I think our T3’s are probably going to be pretty close to a kind of super class but I wouldn’t rule out a couple that are a bit above the normal T3’s; those might be the cross race T3’s where if you decide to trade with the new people that like Monkey’s instead of attacking them you could mingle your classes with theirs and vice versa if you started as the other race.

Talisman’s are just what @Tom refers as the things you equip to turn someone into a certain job/class; so for a Warrior it’d be a Spear+Shield, for a Blacksmith it’d be a Stone Hammer, et cetera. At least that’s what I heard them called in one of the live streams.

@Xavion

Are these the complete stat list? What do they all do?
Coordination, Stamina, Strength, Charisma, Agility, Intelligence, Wisdom

As of right now I’m hoping those are all of the “base stats” but we’re tossing around the idea of skill stats like Aim, Swords, Blunt Weapons, Crafting, or something but I’m not sure how those would work or if they’re needed; if they’re added would they be passed down? Stuff like that. Those base stats should cover all the normal RPG type stuff; maybe an even number would make more sense but I couldn’t come up with something that wasn’t redundant.

• Coordination : Covers everything related to hand eye coordination related like shaping things in crafting, hitting vital points in combat, shooting an arrow where you want, et cetera. (I guess the examples are already there.)
• Stamina : Stamina covers being able to keep active for long periods of time, being able to take more of a beating, and your ability to fight off poisons and diseases. (Higher base health, better resistance to disease, poisons, and voodoo magics that affect the body.)
• Strength : Pretty much covers everything related to body strength, ability to do good damage with a physical weapon, carrying and lifting, drawing a bow. (Base melee damage, faster carry speed, longer range and more damage with a bow.)
• Charisma : Is how likeable and friendly you are, lets you make better trades, helps with animal training/taming, and other things related to social ability. (Sells for more profit, tames faster, better bonuses for pets, better trades for new recipes.)
• Agility : Amazing foot work, dodging, and overall ability to move and react quickly in different terrains and things like climbing. (Examples Dodge skill, Terrain Navigation, Climbing, Parry)
• Intelligence : Ability to think ahead, think of new things, learn faster, and understand more complicated recipes and voodoo magics. (Example would be stronger spells, bonuses to complex recipe products, and increase crit chance for spells.)
• Wisdom : Ability to think back on history, remember rituals and remedies from the past, and general ability to retain knowledge. (A specific example this would increase your “mana pool” to cast more spells and make an herbalist remedies work longer for a better chance to fight off a lingering disease? Something like that.)

[Xavion]

@GrimMethod

I think our T3’s are probably going to be pretty close to a kind of super class but I wouldn’t rule out a couple that are a bit above the normal T3’s;

@GrimMethod

As it’s laid out now there would be two random inherited T2 classes from a T3 pairing of the possible 4 so a T3 can make more T3’s but it wouldn’t be a guarantee and might not be the same but pairing two T3’s of the same class would most likely yield another T3 of that class; they would also have to be Master level I think?

Those two together makes me think you need to sort out what’s the higher tiers, and remember that the harder to get it is the less important it should be. I assume you have a lot more t2 classes to reveal if there is 4 options for each T3, currently you’ve got 13 T2’s - 10 minus scout and upped farmer, carpenter - but you’ve got 14 T3’s. For super awesome elite classes that seems like a heck of a lot of overkill, maybe see which ones can be brought down to T2? or possibly add a less awesome middle tier for stuff like the bowman or the brewmaster that are really just a boosted T2.

@GrimMethod

Coordination : Covers everything related to hand eye coordination related like shaping things in crafting, hitting vital points in combat, shooting an arrow where you want, et cetera. (I guess the examples are already there.)

Stamina : Stamina covers being able to keep active for long periods of time, being able to take more of a beating, and your ability to fight off poisons and diseases. (Higher base health, better resistance to disease, poisons, and voodoo magics that affect the body.)

Strength : Pretty much covers everything related to body strength, ability to do good damage with a physical weapon, carrying and lifting, drawing a bow. (Base melee damage, faster carry speed, longer range and more damage with a bow.)

Charisma : Is how likeable and friendly you are, lets you make better trades, helps with animal training/taming, and other things related to social ability. (Sells for more profit, tames faster, better bonuses for pets, better trades for new recipes.)

Agility : Amazing foot work, dodging, and overall ability to move and react quickly in different terrains and things like climbing. (Examples Dodge skill, Terrain Navigation, Climbing, Parry)

Intelligence : Ability to think ahead, think of new things, learn faster, and understand more complicated recipes and voodoo magics. (Example would be stronger spells, bonuses to complex recipe products, and increase crit chance for spells.)

Wisdom : Ability to think back on history, remember rituals and remedies from the past, and general ability to retain knowledge. (A specific example this would increase your “mana pool” to cast more spells and make an herbalist remedies work longer for a better chance to fight off a lingering disease? Something like that.)

Coordination and Agility seem very intertwined with decent overlap with stuff like footwork or parry being a heavy coordination thing, possibly consider a dexterity/agility split for hands/arms and feet/legs to make it more clear cut. Archers get dex, scouts get agi, and duelists get both. In the same vein int/wis need clarification, why do advanced recipes benefit from int but remedies from wis? It’s just a matter of deciding the distinction for yourself and deciding on the why’s for the bonuses to each. The other 3 seem fine though and should need much work. For ideas this should help and the essay it links to is kinda interesting.

@GrimMethod

That’s a pretty good idea; I think our current thinking is that once you pair two people up it’s kind of like a tribal marriage and they would stay together until death? Not sure if that would be too limiting but with retired tribesmen being turned back into “workers” you would have a “worker bee” pool that recycles which means you could class up more of your villagers without too much fear of not having anyone to do the grunt work.

I’d expect my retired villagers to be less effective at things like hauling then the ones that are younger, a 50 year old generally won’t be as strong as a 20 year old. That and off-duty warriors and such would probably fairly effective haulers.

Who says the tribal marriage can’t have the awesome warrior of ultimateness earning the right to multiple wives? What if a spouse dies? any other of a variety of things that affect a simple marriage construct. For counter inbreeding though just have some kind of good/bad inheritance stuff with varying dominance and make bad more likely to inherit than good at a given dominance. So like maybe this person has +2 str of 5 dominance and they have a kid with a -1 of 5 dominance, the -1 could get like a 70% chance to be inherited while the +2 only gets 50%, instant countering of over inbreeding by eventually causing large amounts of high dominance bad stats.

The other idea was similar but involves a fairly major change, stop using stats. Use a trait based system and then allow for traits to be linked to specific buffs or debuffs like plant size or swordsmanship that are invisible skill based stats over general things like int or str. Then you can give different traits different inheritance chances and it’s set. It could also go well with the class inheritance system particularly if combined with an environment system as you could say things like Champion is only available they spent a lot of time around Warriors as a kid and they are Strong, Strategic, and not Slow. It allows for inheritance to matter while not being a be all end all, completely arbitrary traits like Attuned To Death from having a near death experience as a kid and liking them to a class and not having to deal with a potentially complex stat system as buffs are much more discrete. I feel like there was something else to add here but I can’t remember it.

Finally, Whitesmith? what does this one use? I can see how you seem to be heading more to major faction then race and it’s a decent choice.

[GrimMethod]

@Xavion

Those two together makes me think you need to sort out what’s the higher tiers, and remember that the harder to get it is the less important it should be.

This actually makes a lot more sense so I’ll be pulling some of them down into T2 I didn’t really have current plans for more T2’s (not that it was closed off I just couldn’t think of any that would be “needed to function as a town”) I figured you’d just work towards T3’s but then eventually your T2’s would feel stale and outdated; so yeah the T3’s definitely should feel more exciting and fun to unlock than required.

@Xavion

Coordination and Agility seem very intertwined with decent overlap with stuff like footwork or parry being a heavy coordination thing, possibly consider a dexterity/agility split for hands/arms and feet/legs to make it more clear cut. Archers get dex, scouts get agi, and duelists get both. In the same vein int/wis need clarification, why do advanced recipes benefit from int but remedies from wis? It’s just a matter of deciding the distinction for yourself and deciding on the why’s for the bonuses to each.

That makes sense that Coordination would apply to both hands and feet and overall body coordination; so like Dexterity for hands/arms and Quickness(Or Agility? I like Quickness personally) for feet/legs is what your suggesting in addition to Coordination? That would bring the total number of base stats to a nice round 8. The difference in INT and WIS are pretty much like that page says I just didn’t explain them well enough I guess lol.

@Xavion

I’d expect my retired villagers to be less effective at things like hauling then the ones that are younger, a 50 year old generally won’t be as strong as a 20 year old. That and off-duty warriors and such would probably fairly effective haulers.

I agree there might be some disadvantages as they get older and we planned on having things like a greater percent chance for accidents; like dropping stuff and being injured/killed as they get older. Got to get those old people out of the game some how haha.

@Xavion

Who says the tribal marriage can’t have the awesome warrior of ultimateness earning the right to multiple wives? What if a spouse dies? any other of a variety of things that affect a simple marriage construct. For counter inbreeding though just have some kind of good/bad inheritance stuff with varying dominance and make bad more likely to inherit than good at a given dominance. So like maybe this person has +2 str of 5 dominance and they have a kid with a -1 of 5 dominance, the -1 could get like a 70% chance to be inherited while the +2 only gets 50%, instant countering of over inbreeding by eventually causing large amounts of high dominance bad stats.

That’s another great idea; I had to bring it to my programmer because I was like “I’m pretty sure this is some genetics stuff… let me read this to you and you tell me what he’s saying so I know for sure” I know a bit about genetics but he understood it much better. [quote=“Xavion, post:125, topic:1897”]
The other idea was similar but involves a fairly major change, stop using stats. Use a trait based system and then allow for traits to be linked to specific buffs or debuffs like plant size or swordsmanship that are invisible skill based stats over general things like int or str. Then you can give different traits different inheritance chances and it’s set. It could also go well with the class inheritance system particularly if combined with an environment system as you could say things like Champion is only available they spent a lot of time around Warriors as a kid and they are Strong, Strategic, and not Slow. It allows for inheritance to matter while not being a be all end all, completely arbitrary traits like Attuned To Death from having a near death experience as a kid and liking them to a class and not having to deal with a potentially complex stat system as buffs are much more discrete. I feel like there was something else to add here but I can’t remember it.
[/quote]
This is a really interesting idea and we might look into this (This fits better with what my programmer wants to do but he wanted to get crazy nuts with it and this seems like a better middle ground than stats.) Do you think this could be combined with a simpler and less important bonus stats system that incorporates the counter inbreeding; introducing some variance into your villagers like some would be stronger by nature but doesn’t mean they have what it takes or the raising to be a Champion? I definitely like the more fluid nature of a traits based system it seems like more fun possibilities could come from it than something rigid like pure stats and it would still fit within the vein of classes we have so far after I re-arrange the upper tiers.

[RoseyNineOneOne]

So much text…

But I do like your trees! But… so, any tier 1 can become any tier 2? Not sure I’m too fond of that. Would be weird for my archer to just suddenly become a brewmaster.

[GrimMethod]

@RoseyNineOneOne

So much text…

But I do like your trees! But… so, any tier 1 can become any tier 2? Not sure I’m too fond of that. Would be weird for my archer to just suddenly become a brewmaster.

Well I didn’t mean any it was just saying that you didn’t need to inherit traits/stats in order to unlock a Tier 2; they’re just straight upgrades for their respective class. So a Rungu (the tier 1 ranged club thrower) can upgrade to an Archer he wouldn’t need to have a kid that then becomes an Archer.

[GrimMethod]

I keep hearing about some kind of Zombee apocalypse or something people want going on… did I get it right?

[Paranundrox]

So sexy.

Also, I’m back (for now), and boy have you been busy. I really like the idea of stat inheritance, just because it helps to differentiate this mod from any other. Much of the current questions have been addressed by @Xavion, so I don’t really have much to add, so I’ll just answer your questions from earlier.
1)Yeah, it makes sense, especially with the clarification, and 2&3) It sounds both fun and complicated, (and to me, the complication is WHY it sounds fun), and I personally feel that complexity is OK, since this is a large-scale conversion, so people kinda know what to expect.

[GrimMethod]

Thank you sir! It turns out traits might be more fluid and fun to pass on it will essentially work like stats except they’ll be named things like Strong, Strategic, Foolhardy and they’ll affect the outcome of the T3 that you can unlock and introduce disadvantages that would lock out some T3’s. There might be some small passive stat bonuses passed down but most likely they’ll be invisible and just kind of be there working in the background so as to not lead people into micro-management style stats but will allow for random chance better than average and worse stats; with negative stat dominance stuff piling up so you don’t try and go crazy with baby factories.

@Xavion

Finally, Whitesmith? what does this one use? I can see how you seem to be heading more to major faction then race and it’s a decent choice.

Sorry I keep missing random questions of yours @Xavion ! Haha. The Whitesmith I’m thinking is going to be kind of like a standard one with the twist that they won’t really focus on softer metals (Tin / Pewter) as much but instead will enhance and “polish” blacksmith goods with voodoo magics. Kind of like an enchantment smith; at least that’s what I’m thinking right now.

[DisposaDwarf]

OK with all these epic full conversion mods you awesome people are making, someone is going to need to make a mod manager to keep us less technical people happy.

Any plans to interact with magic once radiant decided how they want to play it?

[Xavion]

@GrimMethod

I agree there might be some disadvantages as they get older and we planned on having things like a greater percent chance for accidents; like dropping stuff and being injured/killed as they get older. Got to get those old people out of the game some how haha.

Just give constantly decreasing resistances with age so assuming they lived long enough they could have all their bones shatter from the force of a sneeze or have all diseases be near instantly fatal and be able to catch them from hundreds of meters away. Accidents should just be handled by things like invisible trip or fumble chances that would be decreased by traits related to being elderly and whatnot. Make sure when they die you can figure out how they died and it’s a better reason then being old, disease or injury or whatever but actual reasons please.

@GrimMethod

This is a really interesting idea and we might look into this (This fits better with what my programmer wants to do but he wanted to get crazy nuts with it and this seems like a better middle ground than stats.)

You can have as many traits as you want, the more there is the harder it is to discover what the requirements are and the less repetition there is, having things like strong, tanky, built, and muscular could be interesting as it helps keep things new. They’d all be slightly different and have different bonuses, plus just add grouping to class so it would be like Inventor needs one of (Scientific, Inquisitive, Logical, Inspired) and one of (Dexterous, Technopath, Nimble Fingers) and not (Dumb, Stupid, Moronic, Slow Learner), it could even allow for distinctions like brawny prevents ranger but muscular doesn’t as it has a slightly higher agility focus.

@GrimMethod

Do you think this could be combined with a simpler and less important bonus stats system that incorporates the counter inbreeding; introducing some variance into your villagers like some would be stronger by nature but doesn’t mean they have what it takes or the raising to be a Champion?

Everything is invisible stats anyway, this just causes it to become a great big list of action modifers for things like success or whatnot so it works fine. Dominance stuff is useful though as most traits shouldn’t be all bad or all good so it helps balance them.

@GrimMethod

with negative stat dominance stuff piling up so you don’t try and go crazy with baby factories.

Related to what I’ve already said but just make most traits have good and bad parts, like maybe strong causes a decrease in speed or simple an increase in manual labor or decreased boredom. Everything has it’s perks, like I nearly can’t stress so consequently while I tend to be pretty bad at deadlines I won’t panic much if I screw something or up or find I don’t how to do half an exam. Everything has it’s up and downs and I’d recommend that being an important factor in your trait design. Plus it would matter more for post-birth traits.

Minmaxing might still be kinda possible for baby factories but you’d need typing and stuff that would just make it pretty much more effort than it’s worth anyway. Suggestion though would be to put caps on min and max +/- traits along with ratio (e.g. not more than 2 bad for 3 good), then add some tiny chance to add new uninherited random traits if over min and fill all under min with them to cause new genetic variation and hopefully preventing overly bad characters from ever occurring. Don’t forget conflicting traits either as while something obvious like strong and weak couldn’t be there at the same time there is the potential for more interesting things like an illogical/logical pair that would be required for high complexity magic and crafting respectively.

@GrimMethod

Haha. The Whitesmith I’m thinking is going to be kind of like a standard one with the twist that they won’t really focus on softer metals (Tin / Pewter) as much but instead will enhance and “polish” blacksmith goods with voodoo magics. Kind of like an enchantment smith; at least that’s what I’m thinking right now

I’m still not sure how I feel about them doing proper mining as they are just a small tribe, it’s needed for balance unless an alternative like imbuing wood and clay and stuff with extra strength or what not is used. So do it with an enchanting branch! You could make higher tiers allow for stronger and more varied affects and it’s where this could really be different. Like maybe along with a bonesmith that makes bones as hard as steel you have a clay worker that can make ceramic armour capable of withstanding sword blows or a wood worker that can treat wood to make it as strong as iron, and similar things for leather or whatever. It would need work but it could be cool and make them feel more tribe-y along with allowing them to run full featured from the get go as the underground and proper mining is not an initial beta thing but it wouldn’t need them at all as there would be no mining.
also
Inspiration has struck! Enchantments are cool and all but do you know what’s cooler? Magical tattoos! A class group based around making the tattoos for your villagers with everything above first level say being able to make more and different magical effects. Tattoos of speed, tattoos of manhood, tattoos of courage or even tattoos of inspiration, anything would be possible and it would make it more than just a cosmetic thing. Plus no need to redo the tattoo’s in a variety of ways for every class to make them look different.

Plenty of text there so I’ll go off to think for now.
PS: Upon looking back over it I have no idea how it got that long so I’m blaming you infecting me. Expect at least one mod-mod attempt from me.

[GrimMethod]

@DisposaDwarf

OK with all these epic full conversion mods you awesome people are making, someone is going to need to make a mod manager to keep us less technical people happy.

Any plans to interact with magic once radiant decided how they want to play it?

I believe @Tom or @Ponder one of them said that mods that a multiplayer server is running will be listed when you try and connect and will also download any needed mods; I’m guessing that will extend to some kind of in-game mod manager as well; although that won’t necessarily mean it will search for and find new mods but you should be able to pick and choose which mods you want to load from ones you have installed at the least.

@Xavion

Just give constantly decreasing resistances with age so assuming they lived long enough they could have all their bones shatter from the force of a sneeze or have all diseases be near instantly fatal and be able to catch them from hundreds of meters away. Accidents should just be handled by things like invisible trip or fumble chances that would be decreased by traits related to being elderly and whatnot. Make sure when they die you can figure out how they died and it’s a better reason then being old, disease or injury or whatever but actual reasons please.

Oh yeah the reasons for tribesmen death are going to be as comical as I can make them; I’m thinking a nice list with some basic stats for all the tribesmen who came before. Maybe like number of successful hunts, number of items crafted, kids fathered/mothered, years lived, and reason for death. I think there will be a chance for “death by natural causes” like after awhile a tribesmen might just not wake up one night; which would be the best way to go. Depending on the needs of your town and the work that needs to be done they’ll more than likely die from something before that happens a majority of the time. Maybe if they fight off death for too long a little Grim Reaper comes by and starts trying to cause accidents to get rid of them; that could be fun and depending on their traits could lead to them dodging the accident and maybe someone else getting it. Or they dropping whatever they were doing and running in fear causing more accidents.

@Xavion

They’d all be slightly different and have different bonuses, plus just add grouping to class so it would be like Inventor needs one of (Scientific, Inquisitive, Logical, Inspired) and one of (Dexterous, Technopath, Nimble Fingers) and not (Dumb, Stupid, Moronic, Slow Learner), it could even allow for distinctions like brawny prevents ranger but muscular doesn’t as it has a slightly higher agility focus.

@Xavion

Everything is invisible stats anyway, this just causes it to become a great big list of action modifers for things like success or whatnot so it works fine. Dominance stuff is useful though as most traits shouldn’t be all bad or all good so it helps balance them.

Right on that sounds like a great way to do it; I haven’t had time to really work out a good list of traits yet but approaching it from that angle will make it easier to keep it balanced.

@Xavion

I’m still not sure how I feel about them doing proper mining as they are just a small tribe, it’s needed for balance unless an alternative like imbuing wood and clay and stuff with extra strength or what not is used. So do it with an enchanting branch! You could make higher tiers allow for stronger and more varied affects and it’s where this could really be different. Like maybe along with a bonesmith that makes bones as hard as steel you have a clay worker that can make ceramic armour capable of withstanding sword blows or a wood worker that can treat wood to make it as strong as iron, and similar things for leather or whatever. It would need work but it could be cool and make them feel more tribe-y along with allowing them to run full featured from the get go as the underground and proper mining is not an initial beta thing but it wouldn’t need them at all as there would be no mining.

I really like this idea some things will need work like you said and it will depend on the amount of those kinds of resources being available. Obviously wood and bone are renewable resources and will be somewhat plentiful to get if you put the time in but things like clay depending on how rare they are would impact their usefulness for those purposes; I mean I’m guessing we will be able to alter those with mods so it probably won’t be an issue. I’m going to try and make some metal armor sets that still look tribal as I’m starting to push more for a “fantasy-tribal” rather than a realistic tribal but if that doesn’t work, which is a possibility as everything they have so far is bone/wood/stone, this could easily be the direction they go. Plus with the new Busker race they’re going to be more like entertainers, traders, merchants, metalworkers, goldsmiths, gem loving, bright colors, Arabian Aladdin meets Bravosi (Game of Thrones) so they might just get all the metal stuff to keep them distinct.

@Xavion

Inspiration has struck! Enchantments are cool and all but do you know what’s cooler? Magical tattoos! A class group based around making the tattoos for your villagers with everything above first level say being able to make more and different magical effects. Tattoos of speed, tattoos of manhood, tattoos of courage or even tattoos of inspiration, anything would be possible and it would make it more than just a cosmetic thing. Plus no need to redo the tattoo’s in a variety of ways for every class to make them look different.

Sweet voodoo magics I don’t know how I hadn’t thought of that already with as much tribal paint as I’ve been putting on the models you’d think that would have crossed my mind. That’s definitely going to be in I just have to figure out how to do it on top of their tribal paint so that’s it looks good and doesn’t cover that up; there isn’t any direction or thought right now in the paint but it’s going to distinguish between classes for easy recognition. Specifically in the colors so far I’m thinking the warriors will be red/yellow paint, greens for the shamans/herbalists, purple/black/white for the Bokor, and that’s about all I have so far maybe orange for the archers/rangers.

Awesome suggestions all around again! I’m going to mess around with making age distinctions in the villagers and more qubicles to come… but first it’s time to go out for some food.

[EpicDwarf]

Nice work, but will it blend?

JK

[GrimMethod]

Villager age cycles.

[Paranundrox]

@Xavion

They’d all be slightly different and have different bonuses, plus just add grouping to class so it would be like Inventor needs one of (Scientific, Inquisitive, Logical, Inspired) and one of (Dexterous, Technopath, Nimble Fingers) and not (Dumb, Stupid, Moronic, Slow Learner)

@Xavion

Are these the complete stat list? What do they all do?
Coordination, Stamina, Strength, Charisma, Agility, Intelligence, Wisdom

I really like that first idea (or at least how I’m interpreting it) which is essentially that the X basic groups are broken up into multiple different traits, so that for example, Agility has “nimble” and “quick” etc.
This could also get a lot more complex (if you wanted to do so) by making some of these traits fit into multiple groups. For right now, I think the most important thing is to figure out how the stats will be organized (int, dex, cha, etc.) and how they will be split up, and then you can move onto what classes need what, or how they may affect the character.

On the death front, I really like @Xavion’s suggestion of compounding debuffs, essentially , which make it inevitable that your character WILL die, its just a matter of how/ when, depending on how well you take care of him.

Edit: I assume there will also be a scaling difference between the models? That is, the children will appear smaller in animation/in-game?

Double Edit: On the subject of individual traits within the skills, perhaps they could provide specific bonuses. For example, “Nimble” and “Quick” both give you the bonus to the “Agility” stat, but “Nimble” gives the unit a slight increase to dodge (or block, or SOME way to avoid damage) because he can move out of the way faster (flavorfully), while a “Quick” unit gets an inherent increase in basic movement speed.

[Maximus]

Salutations!

I Think this is going to be a great mod, but I can not help but wonder, who is going to code this?

I will say this again, well done!

-Wizard Max-

[Xavion]

@GrimMethod

I just have to figure out how to do it on top of their tribal paint so that’s it looks good and doesn’t cover that up;

Why? My suggestion was to make them the tribal paints, as the kids shouldn’t be born with paint on so you should have to put it on some how. You could even use it instead of talismans, just chuck a particular pattern on them to change their class. They’d essentially be an overlay just like clothes or something with each tattoo designed once for each body type. The trickiest part would be figuring out how to do multiple tattoos, you’d probably just have to split the body up into multiple parts and give tattoos designated parts.

The idea of the different patterns and colours cause different effects can be used for other stuff as well like all the enchanting things, you could even really run with it and design your whole magic tree into the two strip layout of painted patterns for one major type and herbs and spiritual powers for the other. Want a zombie out of that giant monster you took down or golems out of those scarecrows you made? You could use your high tier mages to either paint patterns of life and control on it or you could summon a spirit and trap it in it, possibly you need to summon a spirit with your voodoo user and put control bindings on it with your magic artist. It allows for so much and it could provide a different way of doing magic to a lot of other things as all your magic classes would be about either minor necromancy with a little bit of necromagy on the side or imbuing things with magic for effects, they wouldn’t get things like projectile spells or elemental powers or clear skies or anything like that, instead they’ll fight with legions of trained warriors decked out in less enchanted gear and personal enchantments than you can shake a stick at. Plus imagine a pikken that can fly because they’ve had weight reducing enchantments placed on them so that their stubby little wings can actually work.

@Paranundrox Bit confused when you pulled out the old post but one of the ideas behind traits was to scrap the 7 stat model and just use traits. But the grouping of traits into categories roughly equivalent to them is fine and kinda what I was going for with that first post but they’d still have action bonuses instead of general stat bonuses, so your dexterous traits would have individual bonuses to crafting or archery instead of a general dexterity bonus. It also allowed for more specialized traits like one that affects running speed but not footwork with swords or dancing for rituals.
As for the age debuff causing death stuff it was fairly simple, require gameplay balancing to work out how to make the debuffs high enough and effective enough so that they die before they get so old they are entirely useless because of debuffs making them unable to move, carry, or even teach. Because presumable retired workers teaching the younger ones and the kids will be a fairly common action.

[GrimMethod]

@Xavion

Why? My suggestion was to make them the tribal paints, as the kids shouldn’t be born with paint on so you should have to put it on some how. You could even use it instead of talismans, just chuck a particular pattern on them to change their class. They’d essentially be an overlay just like clothes or something with each tattoo designed once for each body type. The trickiest part would be figuring out how to do multiple tattoos, you’d probably just have to split the body up into multiple parts and give tattoos designated parts.

I just meant I would have to figure out a way to do both at the same time, I didn’t actually plan on having kids coming out already painted haha just that the paints and colors were going to be the way to easily distinguish between classes. Uses the paints as talismans would be pretty interesting and the tattoo’s could be black with symbols designating the type of tattoo and the paint would then be painted over it. I’m thinking the location of the tattoo would be the initial significance of it like if it’s on the chest, back, or hands it would be tattoos that affect the strength/stamina or physical damage things of that nature.

So like something like that but then the armor covers it up; of course the armor would also be an easy way to figure out what and who they were so that might not matter.

(Edit) Actually well some locations work like body, head, and feet tattoos would be obvious (for the type but not exact buff) but hand tattoos would definitely have to be defined by the symbols and or colors because that could be anything. Speed/Strength/Magic

[GrimMethod]

@Paranundrox

I assume there will also be a scaling difference between the models? That is, the children will appear smaller in animation/in-game?

I had the kids made awhile ago but they’re hard to see in the full tribe image lol.

I also have kid sized skeleton summons… you know just in case.