I really like Hydromancer much more than Oceanographer
But i really like the idea of consequences when you use magic. What you need to remember newf is that there is already a raise in the thaum when you gets the wizards to do stuff and that will eventually end up with a catastrophe 
I like it better when there is an immediate penalty instead of a threat of what will happen. It is like saying āThe Polar Ice Caps are melting and the world is going to flood if we donāt stop pollutingā, I would then say āIāll be dead by then so I donāt careā. Immediate penalties are much scarier and it would make decision making in the game much harder and interesting.
But most of stonehearth are based on the If you continue doing this stuff will happen logic if you have a lot of food the gamemaster will discover it and send goblins. If you continues attacking the enemies the gamemaster will react acording to that and become more aggressive.
So the at some point you will regret what you did. it is one of the things i like about stonehearth that you need to plan forward all the time according to what you do and you will always know what you do has consequences
Anyone played the Thaumcraft mod for Minecraft? Keep doing magical stuff without letting the excess magic die down to background levels, and bad things happen, and get worse the more you continue. That seems like a better model than ādo something => instant responseā, especially in a slower-paced game like Stonehearth.
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Thatās why this feature would be amazing! Nobody will expect it! Imagine, Some player sends sharks after some Goblin Warships that are entering the cove his small town is in, Then he says to himself: āWow that was easy, I will deal with the consequences laterā but then he sends his fishing ships out to get food and they say āOh Noes! The Sharks have eaten all the fishes! What are we to do?ā (It doesnāt help that when he tries to bring them back, they are attacked, sunk and eaten by ravenous sharks). At this point the player says to himself: āI didnāt see that one coming! Lets see what should I do so I donāt starve to deathā¦ā. So then the player builds a few farms expanding his inland territory. The Goblins think to themselves āThese humans are encroaching on our territory!, Get Them!ā. So the Goblins come a-knocking on his doorstep and he deals with them and such. Now the player is saying: āLook at all this content I was ignoring because I was too focused building an entirely coastal city!ā
So you see that if you vary up the content a little it both surprises the player making for a more enjoyable game (We are going to get bored of waiting if we have to wait for the cool stuff to happen) and it allows the player to explore more options within the game.
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Is the Sourcerer a Sorcerer of sour? 
LoL!! thereās a ton of potential in the ideas i see around here haha; I didnāt remeber the warlock!! what a fool i am!! thatās perfect!!! 
thanks!!
@thorbjorn42gbf Shapeshifter itās really goodā¦ but that kind of wizard itās more focused on beast/elemental form and other polymorph spellsā¦ the name comes from there; In fact, the name comes from the 9th level spell called: Shapechange. There you have what it does; itās pretty amazing once you know how to properly use it 
And now, to answer @Newf:
There is an hydromancer/Oceanographerā¦ in the Sorcerer Bloodlines, thereās an elemental one, In that one, youāll have to choose what of the four elements The sorcerer will focus on. And it will gain spells/abilities to manipulate that kind of element. At first, you can only choose ONE element, but maybeā¦ (just maybe) there can be an avatar guyā¦
And about the FUN stuff that happens when you use a LOT of magic, iāve planed BOTH kind of consecuences:
- Right now consecuences this happens if you use too much magic or you build too many magical things without any safe measures, in a very short amount of timeā¦ also, it can happen randomly just because youāre wizards/Sorc rolled a 1 to cast a spell xD
- Long term consecuences: that affects the whole gameplay of the city and makes you to think and make things in another and completly different way xD, obviously these are the consequence of being constantly a fool about magic security.
Maybe iāll introduce too those āDonāt mess to much with magic or youāll have troubles SOONā, so i let the player have any small chance to apply any measures to avoid a major disaster; of course, this disasters are even bigger than any other, because youāve been warned and youāve ignored it, so, have FUN! xD
Iāve an evil mind when it comes to magical side effects MUAHAHAHAHAHA, so donāt worry about evil thingsā¦ Tom also said that they wanted magic to be like nuclear power: very powerful, but very dangerous, and i want to follow that slogan xD.
Damm i didnāt see this coming xDDD; errr try to google Sourcery Discworld
@Teleros Iām a huge fan of Minecraft, and Iām a huge fan of the FTB modpacks, so yes, iāve played a LOT to Thaumcraft, and Ars Magica 2 too, and i think both mods are Excellent, i wish that someday, my mod reaches that level of quality, and maybe iām taking one idea or two from those mods tooā¦ those are so well balanced, so fun to play with, with so many toys to make my minecraft life more magicalā¦ :D, ijust like them a lot.
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And now,ā¦ I really hate to double post, but ey, i want to update all of you guys on my thoughts about the Classes, and what will each of those do, and whatās my idea behind every class.
First, we have the apprentices in both trees, both will have different skills but theyāll use the same spell pool to choose spells from. At the begining, These apprentice classes will be used as an introduction for the mechanics of every class:
- The Sorc wonāt have a properly Workshop (maybe he has like a small stand called magic lab, where he can develop his inner power(not sure if itās going to work like this) and maybe craft and process a few things), but heās more like the trapper unit, where you have to move him around. He knows all the cantrips avaiable, and can spam them a lot because of his large mana pool, but once you start getting higher level spells, you have the same spell pool than the wizard, but youāll be able to choose just a few. You can change what youāve choosen everytime you level up; but you shouldnāt be allowed to change them very often. I want this unit also to be more than just amilitary unit, with itās arcana knowledge, you can send him with any squads you have, to explore the surroundings, and i want it to have more purposes than just exploding bad things around.
- With the wizard apprentice youāll learn how to use his workshop (called magical study), what he can do with it (Much more crafting than the Sorc, and can process a few fun things, it can research new spells too), and what spells can it use. He knows all the cantrips, but he canāt use them all the time, because his mana pool itās smaller. In the other hand, when you level him up, heāll have acess to the higher level spells sooner, and he will have more spells avaiable for use, but he can cast them less often. Heāll take advantage of any other spellbooks you find around, so potentially, he can learn and have all the spells avaiable in the game. but with the apprentice youāll learn that you have to make a little bit of farming too to gather reagents in orther to cast more powerfull spells. I want this class to be more usefull directly to the city, but you can send out too with the military dudes to blast some small goblin outpost, just remember that he runs out of fuel soon.
And now iāll go first with the Sorcerer Tree:
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BOOM and Ka-BOOM sorcerer: This is my own creation, you born, with gunpowder in the veins and youāve born for the battle, this Sorc will have skills/talents that are much better to fight in the battleground. Perfect for defense or offense. The BOOM itās the sound when his fireball (favourite spell along with magic missiles) lands on some building).
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Aberrant disciple, Lord of Chaos/Malkhavian: There is a taint in your blood, one that is alien and bizarre. You tend to think in odd ways, approaching problems from an angle that most would not expect. Over time, this taint manifests itself in your physical form. Lateral thinking, and different ways to solve to problems are the main description of this bloodline, if you want to be creative, this is your dude. His talents and skills will be focused on control/damage/weird stuff, a nice all-around Sorc with strange ways to fight and with a strange body, it uses a lot of touch-ranged spells. The Lord of Chaos/Malkavian evolutiĆ³n itās really INSANE, so beware if you see him mumbling about meteor showers or the end of times xD.
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Demonic disciple/Infernal: Generations ago, a demon spread its filth into your heritage. While it does not manifest in all of your kin, for you it is particularly strong. Yeah, demon blood inside of you, but youāre not a demon, maybe a half-demon or maybe just half-humanā¦ The thing is that you can gather power from the Hell planes and that amkes you powerful; This Sorc can boost himself to gain power, and to be a total weapon of destructionā¦ just make sure heās aiming at the right direction ā**Yes, over there, aim to those GREEN guys, what??. No, Iām not green!!. ey! donāt point that finger a. FWOOOOOSSHH **ā.
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Elemental Disciple/Maelstrom: The power of the elements resides in you, and at times you can hardly control its fury. This influence comes from an elemental outsider in your family history or a time when you or your relatives were exposed to a powerful elemental force. Elementsā¦ oh yeah!! Earth, wind, water and fire can be at your command with just a single word, but just one of themā¦ When you start with this bloodline, you have to choose what element will you be focusing on. It has all-around spells and skills to control the chosen element as well as things related to that element (rivers with the water, foundrys with the fire one, maybe geomancer and earth elemental features overlapā¦, and atmosphere with the wind one). maelstrom itās just a stronger version, where the body of the Elemental disciple becomes one with the elementā¦ justā¦ try to put the fire dude far away from the wood/trees xD
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Elemental Disciple/Thamaturge: Your family has always been skilled in the eldritch art of magic. While many of your relatives were accomplished wizards, your powers developed without the need for study and practice. Soā¦ youāre a Sorcererā¦ and magic itās made of thaumsā¦ and thaums are your little friends that you know so well that you can even see them and talk to them. This is maybe the perfect guy to avoid magical disasters, he can let the player know what itās happening with the magic in his city perfectly (usually you need other items to know about this information) with his skills and talents, and also, his arcane influence, allows him to use magic in a more powerfull way, boosting his spells to reach further, explode wider, and casting things faster without spending tons of extra Mana.
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Destined Disciple /The Chosen One: Your family is destined for greatness in some way. Your birth could have been foretold in prophecy, or perhaps it occurred during an especially auspicious event, such as a solar eclipse. Regardless of your bloodlineās origin, you have a great future ahead. Soā¦ now that are predestinated to something (Randomly generated) youāre pretty lucky, and when things look really bad, the situation misteriously resolves to your favor; well, maybe itās not so mysterious, because thereās magic involved; But yo get the point, right? his set of skills make him a nice leader and support guy with a high capacity for surviving to combat or almost any situation. But the best part comes when you fulfill your destiny, then your power grows exponentially and your fame reaches unexpected places. (yeahā¦ anyway, iāll make the Destiny a pretty late game featureā¦ it wonāt be an easy task, but the reward should be appropiate)
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Draconic disciple/Dragonheir: At some point in your familyās history, a dragon interbred with your bloodline, and now its ancient power flows through your veins. If you already like to be a Sorcerer, now imagine what it could be to be a half-sorcerer half-Dragon dude, this means: fire-breating, scale-skin (the color and the type of breath depends on the type of dragon you choose to be your ancient), claws, wings, and a hell lot more of Dragon features!!, If i were you, iāll try to stay away from a crazy dudes called dragonborns, they shout a lot, and they are not good for you.
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Fey Disciple/natural Being: The capricious nature of the fey runs in your family due to some intermingling of fey blood or magic. You are more emotional than most, prone to bouts of joy and rage. Fairies and gnomes and driads were your friends since the first time you met them, and now you know why. Your powers allows you to control other people really easyly, and your skill talents are more focused to be like one of the forests creatures, invisibility, make fun of others, and have a lot of fun in general with everyone around you. Perfect class to turn your foes against each other, and to create all kind of hilarious situations in the battleground. you can also Boost his powers if itās cloe to a forest instead of the city; Nature itās your ally, not so ally like a druid, but itās close.
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Undead Disciple/Iām-not-Dead-I-swear Master: The taint of the grave runs through your family. Perhaps one of your ancestors became a powerful lich or vampire, or maybe you were born dead before suddenly returning to life. Either way, the forces of death move through you and touch your every action., Ok so you like to play with dead people, and death in generalā¦ the thing itās that it seem sthat themore power you have, the less alive you like, and your neighbours are really worried about this, they donāt know when theyāll be the next Dead you want to play withā¦ so it has to convince people that heās not dead in order to maintain a friendly coexistence with his neighbours. Of course his powers and skills are focused in that magic art called Necromancy, and Death itās his friend, so the things buried in teh graves, can be really good soldiers of your cityās army. And your foes will feel the cold breath of death once they know youā¦ maybe they can join your army too xD; Just be careful to not loose too much flesh and limbs when youāre power grows; it doesnāt make you less powerfull to have a rotten arm, but the neighbours can be really worried, and maybe you found someday with a beautiful mob full of torches and pitchforks at your door xD.
okayā¦ Iām really sorry for this HUGE wall text xDD but i wanted to make a resume of the sorcererās classes. I know iāve left the most powerfull class, but iāll talk about it another day, as well as with the Wizard classesā¦ i think you have enough for today with this xD. Sorry also for the probably mistakes and mispellings, iāve look over it as much as i can, but iām sure some typo has escaped to my vison
I hope you like this ^^; i just expect to achieve all that iām saying here; this is my idead on how the Sorc should be, with all this bloodlines. ^^ see ya!
You do not need to feel sorry also i love how you are taking text from the pathfinder books
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itās really handy for the Bloodlinesā¦ but i think that iāll have to make my own for the wizard classes xD; even though iām not good with epic words in english as a pathfinder book hehe, thanks!
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ideas for non violent class futures:
elemental:
water water has an element of healing to it so they could be healer and they could be used to help ships and redirect rivers
earth They could be used to excavate big areas and summon golem workers they could also be used to build big castles (basically geomancers)
air wind for ships and protection against storms
Undead:
the dead is not only war machines they could also be used for work as long it only involves simlpe stuff
also maybe you should make a vocabulary for people who donāt know what we talk about i donāt think that most people know what Cantrips as an example.
Those are included in the sorcerers tooā¦ but i want to emphasize this aspect right now.
Emm sry, but Wizards and Sorcs, can NEVER be healers; magic canāt heal, itās a fact. Thatās one of itās limits.
BTW There IS Friendly Fire xD
those other ideas are really, good, and i have my own ideas to make them non-killer machines xD, so donāt worry ^^
Mmm this is a tricky oneā¦ itās hard for me to explain this vocabulary to my non-RPG friends it in spanish. now imagine to explain it in english xDD;
Once i start to develop the mod, iāll be sure that you understand what youāre loking at, and there will be a miniguide inside the game with vocabulary and such. But this Mod itās for fan RPG magic users; so i take for granted that when i talk about āa fireball makes 1d6 damage per caster level up to 10d6, and it requires some reagents, verbal and somatic component. Itās a 3rd level spell, 20ā radius, standar casting time, allows Ref save(DC= Char bonus+ level spell +10+other bonus), RC: Yesā you know whatās the meaning of every single word xD.
This mod can be used to introduce new people into the wonderful world of pathfinder and dungeons, but that will come later on.
Also, anyone can ask, and iāll be glad to answer him, with the help of the Pathfinder PRD I think i can answer everything correctly; I always have that page in favourites, i love that game .
Sounds reasonable
But i really thinks it is a bid sad if people who thinks magic are a great idea but canāt understand what we are talking about 
i can make a basic one and post it here if people wants to know what some of the words mean
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sure!! youāre welcome to do that it can be used to introduce new people to the rol game too haha. And if the combat system itās based in D20 roll system, then itās going to be a really usefull post ^^.
Magic is put into 2 main groups: Arcane and Divine
Arcane are magic as most of us know it can come from many different places (i am not quite sure from where in this mod)
Divine magic is holy, granted by the gods and cast by their priests
This mod is mainly focused on Arcane magic
Magic is further divided into 7 groups: (called shcools)
as written in Pathfinder Core Rulebook
Conjuration
Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five sub schools.
Conjurations transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling);
create objects or effects on the spot (creation);
heal (healing); (divine magic)
bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or forms of energy to you (summoning);
or transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation). Creatures you conjure usuallyābut not alwaysāobey your commands.
Necromancy
Necromancy spells manipulate the power of death, unlife, and the life force. Spells involving undead creatures make up a large part of this school.
Transmutation
Transmutation spells change the properties of some creature, thing, or condition.
Divination
Divination spells enable you to learn secrets long forgotten, predict the future, find hidden things, and foil deceptive spells.
Enchantment
Enchantment spells affect the minds of others, inf luencing or controlling their behavior.
Illusion
Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.
Evocation
Evocation spells manipulate magical energy or tap an unseen source of power to produce a desired end. In effect, an evocation draws upon magic to create something out of nothing. Many of these spells produce spectacular effects, and evocation spells can deal large amounts of damage.
Cantrips: Weak spells that isnāt very strong but can be cast easily be cast
This should explain most of the magic stuff for people if you plan to use d20 just say it then i will make more:)
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This is why you have Clerics! Have you learned nothing @thorbjorn42gbf?
Anyone who doesnāt know what a Cantrap/Cantrip is should not be reading this thread.
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I am just going to say: The black magicians trilogy, Circle of magic and Elminster and his silver fire 
Also @Newf we are using Cantrips in the PnP form which all people may not know what means also as long as people like magic and wizards they have a lot to do here.
[quote=āNewf, post:76, topic:1167ā]Anyone who doesnāt know what a Cantrap/Cantrip is should not be reading this thread.
[/quote]
define:cantrip 
.
As for that description of the schools of magicā¦ yeah, thatās the standard D&D model for schools of magic. Personally I prefer dividing it into things like elemental/natural/arcane etc.
Also, @thorbjorn42gbf - you mean Trudi Canavanās Black Magician books? I may be planning a slight nod to them in my own stuff (coughtotallynotgotablackmagemanabatteryclassplanned) 
.
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āThe silver fire can also be activated within the body of a Chosen to purge all external magical and psionic compulsions from that person.ā quoted from the wikipedia :p, so that silver fire doesnāt heal.
And iāve only read a few pagesof the Black magicians trilogy, and i think itās really bad, and i donāt know whatās the circle of magic. soā¦ as far as iām concerned, Magic doesnāt heal, this not neither Sword of thruth World, or The Wheel of Time worldā¦ itās more D&D based world.
First of letās not talk about the black magicians trilogy because i donāt want to get in a fight. Also i will say in most classical fantasy magic donāt heal but in a few of them epic magic can get to the point where that can happen though.
Also: HA (i did NOT use 20 minutes looking for this )
but yes you are mostly right arcane doesnāt healā¦ sorry 