"Foundation blocks" to erect walls?

[Atralane]

So, I was recently thinking of the building tool and the issue of internal walls within houses. I also realized a possible issue with the eventual development of the tool–currently, floors are built on top of the surface, and appear raised when looking at it through doorways. When we can drop the floor down by mining, would this also drop the walls? The result is that the bottom of the walls either gets buried one voxel or there is a block of dirt/grass under them, disconnecting them from the floor (both of which could be aesthetically frustrating, as well as other system issues in the future). Also, how would this affect the currently-desired feature of internal walls within a structure, since these would be on a different y-elevation?

So I thought, what if there was a sort of “foundation”-purpose floor block, that automatically erects a wall type on top of it when you click the “erect walls” option we currently have, instead of just outlining the floor’s boundary?

Here’s a possible floor blueprint. All details are on the same plane, flush with the “floor” of the building:

The wall foundation blocks are the brown and gray blocks seen here–gray–representing the current plastered wall design option–is used as the outer wall design of the house. The brown represents the wooden wall design, and is used here for internal rooms. The boxes mark doorways, which might be subtly changed to create a more aesthetic awning floor. (The diagonal design is the current floor pattern we have that’s possible with the two wood color types, just to diversify the floor of the model)

With this system, the walls would be laid out within the floor plan, avoiding y-axis errors. The entire “floor” can then either be built on top of the surface, or lowered one voxel so the floor is flush with the terrain (the foundation block would be hidden, with the normal wall completely visible). As seen with the plan, whatever foundation block is used will determine which wall design is used, allowing for even different patches of walls within one section (for example, one wall having a plaster-wood-plaster design).

I see two flaws currently with this mechanic. The first is that the underside of the floor (in the case of multi-floor buildings) would show these foundation blocks; this could possibly be resolved with another voxel of thickness to elevated subsequent floors in a building, or possibly the sides and top, versus the bottom of the foundation block can have different chosen textures. The other is the mechanical restrictions of walls (min-max length, proximity to other walls), and how they are applied with these blocks.

So, how does this design sound? I suppose the big questions are whether these “foundation” blocks are actual physical blocks, or just a blueprint tool seen only in the construction view mode (They could add a little more aesthetic diversity, in my opinion, but perhaps the option to have either would be the best) and if they would have to operate differently than normal floor blocks, since walls currently have problems being next to each other or being too long or short.

[Atralane]

Here is the same concept picture, plus a few more details I recently incorporated:

In this image, I added the possible scaffolding outlay for this particular floor blueprint. One of the things I’ve seen people asking about in the discourse pages is the ability to eventually instruct which sides of walls have scaffolding placed on them, or perhaps the order in which the scaffolding sets are built and how the structure is put together. Since this was a fairly simpler design here, I was able to specify which direction the scaffolding should be put up without too much difficulty.

I also added the dark brown pillars which currently appear at the ends of wall segments. In the floor blueprint, they would also have a specific foundation block to mark their location. Early in development, these might be the simplest method for converging the different wall types, as seen on the east wall of the blueprint (the two inner walls meet the outer plaster wall at a pillar). Later on, though, we might not need these pillars (or can choose not to have them) for different wall types to meet. This can be seen on the north wall.

I tried to follow the current look of the building system’s interface, so hopefully these additional details are clear enough!

[Faylon]

This idea sounds like it has a lot of potential, at least for in the early stages of the development. I would also like to see some extra doodads for just plain open doorways. Which are similar to the doors now, with the brown rim, except without the actual door (so that it’s just open doorway). Those would be nice to have if you want to make rooms inside a house, without separating them by a door. And I assume they wouldn’t be too hard to put in the game either.

[tsylus]

I’d like to think this will naturally be addressed as the construction system nears completion. I agree construction needs a level mechanic and not just for aesthetics. It will be necessary when building multiple stories, building on uneven ground, and when editing existing structures.

I built my own foundations:

Using a larger base floor as the foundation/end floor with the “walls” floor built on that:

Built out floors for scaffolding:

Completed with flush entry:

Aesthetically not so pleasing to look at - yet. If the outer block color matched then it would look great as a raised floor design. However, with mining on the way, a leveling mechanic could drop the ground and make it flush. Either way, I hope something similar to your idea is implemented. If so, it would be a relatively simple addition that would make the building possibilities nearly endless. I have faith in Radiant!

[Atralane]

I didn’t really think of this until now, but it looks like you somehow removed the flooring on the outside of the structure, getting it to become flush with the walls (see picture 2 versus 3 and 4). How did you do this? I’ve yet to remove structures in any of my playthroughs so far (considering the function’s also not technically in the game yet).

[Teleros]

The floor removal tool can (and will) remove existing floors from other finished structures when you use it.

[Atralane]

Ah, I didn’t know that. I’ll have to try it out later on, if the feature doesn’t get added officially before then.

[tsylus]

The floor removal tool is the best/only way to get effective stairs and foundations and such. You should play around with it. It’s crazy what people come up with, even with limited tools.

[Bold]

Now that I have tried the game, I have some remarks to make about the building tool. I just got the beta so my opinions are sort of first impressions. Look at them as fresh and a slip of the tong.

At the very first beginning I was impressed by the building tool Stoneheart is using, simple and quick to use. But after using it several times it didn’t feel quiet good anymore, and I wondered why… And after a while it occurred to me what the problem might be.

1. The thing is it tells me what to do, and in witch order.
2. It kind of automatically does it for me (one click, all walls at once).
3. And I can’t change my building once its approved to be build.

All in all it does not give me that sand boxy feeling, witch Stoneheart pretends to be.

I am hoping for a more loose building tool, witch gives you more freedom. Don’t get me wrong I like it the way it is now and I know they will ad even more options. And for a lot of people this is the the way they practically gone use it.

But what I am hoping for is more freedom, just let me build a little section of the floor, approve, and then let my builders start building. Let me build a bit of a wall on a other still not finished building, let me put in another window in a “already finished” house. Let me brake down a wall or roof to change it the way I want !!

Am I the only one thinking this?
Please give me total freedom !!

ps. sorry for my English, I am from Holland.

[Teleros]

[quote=“Bold, post:9, topic:8105”]But after using it several times it didn’t feel quiet good anymore, and I wondered why… And after a while it occurred to me what the problem might be.

1. The thing is it tells me what to do, and in witch order.
2. It kind of automatically does it for me (one click, all walls at once).
3. And I can’t change my building once its approved to be build.[/quote]
   The third point is something that you can be pretty certain will change in time. The second will likely remain, because it’s just useful & saves time, but I expect we’ll see more options along side it (think about interior walls etc). The first… does it? It certainly encourages you to do floor first, then walls etc, but I don’t think you actually have to do it in that order…

[taklu]

they already got the erect wall tool they just need to make that usable inside I actualy messed with making rooms by shaping the floor but it bugged out in certain direction it only erected half the walls(going a certain direction) when you do atou walls and well found out you can get the interior walls to be built if you leave a gap in the floors for scalfolding this haven’t tried it again too bugy but try it out yourself

steps to make interior walls

1. lay out floor to what you want
2. erase spots in floors (just enouph for the wall) where you want the walls to go
3. erect walls
4. place roof
5. use the erase tool again for 1-2 spaces away from interior wall doesn’t matter which side as long as it can go along to whole wall so L shapes you’ll want spacing on either both outside or one inside one outside both on the inside might work (haven’t tried) they might just build one side before the other

you could supposidly do 5. then fill back in the floor than do 4.

heres the buggy thing the started to get half way building the interior walls for me and from one direction it was built from another it wasn’t and they could still place wall segments on that side

I’m going to actually do another test and make another thread on this (nope just running into a bug where they stop when taking down scaffolding and either do nothing or pick up wood

[Atralane]

@taklu

erase spots in floors (just enouph for the wall) where you want the walls to go

I haven’t had the chance to try this personally yet due to my schedule this week, but internal walls with the current system is something I’ve been wanting to try out a bit. The foundation idea I had is just one possible early mechanic remedy so the player wouldn’t have walls and floors at different levels of the building, possibly causing errors with each other. Either way, the issues brought up in the thread will likely get fixed–internal walls, secondary floors… the foundation block is one possible way I saw the building mechanic could expand a bit.

@Bold

The thing is it tells me what to do, and in witch order.

Yeah, I agree that sort of happens–the problem is, that’s sort of how buildings are logically put together. The dimensions need to be set first, then the details are added like the roof and doodads. However, one thing we might see in the future is the ability to draw the external portion of the house, then fill the inside. The player could draw the outside walls in the shape they want, then there could be a new option to automatically fill in a floor (reversing the process). I don’t know how likely this would be, but it’s one possible way the process might be switched around. There’s definitely going to be more building options anyway, so it should begin to feel less “draw box, erect house around it” a little farther into development.

@Bold

And I can’t change my building once its approved to be build.

@Teleros

The third point is something that you can be pretty certain will change in time.

I would say the same thing, being able to change an existing house is something we’ll see in the eventual future–it could be as general as taking the model of the house back into construction mode and then changing the design or adding features would cause a new stage of construction on it, tearing down and building voxels to match the new design. (Not to shamelessly promote my concept, but having the specifications for the walls and floors on the same plane, playing by similar mechanics of placement, would make this editing process hopefully a little simpler–especially with multiple-floor structures.)

[Bold]

I am sure the building system will evolve in something great and of course they will have to compromise in some way, the thing is I am just new to this game (witch I love) and for the love of this game I felt I had to mention it.

Also I have played a other game witch is also a “city” management game, also still in development, maybe you heard about it, Timber & Stone.
There you build block by block or if you prefer a whole row of blocks witch you also can raise in height by simply click on the up (down) arrow. The whole selected row will raise one block/level per arrow click.
Even when a wall is ready, you can select the blocks you want to remove and they will be removed by a miner.

Now don’t get me wrong, I love this game already and I am sure the building system will workout fine. But all I am saying is that it felt so free and seeing my builders build my design block by block looked so appealing so adorable. It gave me a sandbox feeling, although I have to say, the system in Stone Heart is much quicker and easier to use.

[Atralane]

The thing I like about Stonehearth is that it seems to encourage you more to start building houses right away for your people; the building system also seems to make this a little friendlier, as you mentioned. A lot of Timber and Stone playthroughs I’ve seen online seem to just have people sleeping out in fields for a good portion of their early episodes instead of working on any houses; maybe this has changed? I remember this also used to be the case with RimWorld, but it looks like they’ve tweaked it to encourage building establishments sooner and thinking about your people’s residencies.