XP dependent on total char level, not job level


#1

Edit: This has become more of a discussion thread and the original bug was actually not to be a bug.

Bug:
When changing the job of a citizen that already has a job level above apprentice, the experience bar resets but needs more than 100 experience to get to the next job level.

Summary:
I changed a level 2 farmer to a footman. It is now requiring that he gain 900 experience to get to the level 1 footman, when it is normally just 100 experience needed.

Steps to reproduce:

  1. Train up a citizen until it is above the apprentice level in a certain profession.
  2. Change the job of that citizen and look at the experience bar.
  3. Have the citizen train in the new profession and see the experience bar is functioning, but needs that extra experience

Expected Results:
The citizens experience should reset on a job change and need only 100 experience to level up from apprentice

Actual results:
The citizens experience does reset on a job change but needs many times more experience to level up from apprentice

Work around tried:
Changing to many different professions, experience needed to get to the next level always stays at 900 (level 3 exp requirement)

Suggestion?
Experience is correctly resetting, so changing the experience needed for the next level will hopefully be a quick fix…


#2

Quick check - does this XP issue actually apply like this, or is it just a GUI issue?

Also, it may be working as intended - have to page @sdee or someone to clarify whether this is intentional or not.


#3

It actually happens like that. I switching the citizen from level 3 farmer to apprentice swordsman. After that his experience (exp) points reset to 0 and started gaining exp towards 900 points. In the image, it shows that he has already attained 650 points towards that 900, so he didn’t gain a level after getting 100 exp points.

I am currently running it longer to see what happens when he gains the 900 exp points and levels.


#4

After running it further, the citizen became a level 1 footman and it now shows him needing 1600 exp to become a level 2 footman.


#5

Its good to have discouragement for changing jobs, especially when talking about footman… seems to be working smartly, even if it isnt intended… do you really think that you should be able to take someone who has been a carpenter for forever, then suddenly make them a footman, and expect them t perform well. If there was no disouragement it would be OP. (In my opinion), And I am happy that stonehearth isn’t going to become some game where you don’t need to think things through before doing them.

Also, if they didn’t make it harder to level other skillsets/classes, you could farm health and speed-ups, especially when the game is more finished, and that would be EVEN MORE op.


#6

Agreed to a certain extent, but I think having to go through the training of the other skill first is disincentive enough as is. Perks gained through skills are only active when that skill is active, so there is no real incentive to training multiple skills on a citizen.

I’ll do an example to argue my point:
As it stands now, citizen A who starts off with one skill and switches will always be a couple levels behind citizen B that start with that skill and keeps forever. Even if the citizen A spends many more times practicing the new skill, the needed exp to level X will always be many times higher than that of citizen B getting to level X. In my mind, leveling should never be a big downside and feels like a bug when it basically junks a citizens (eg. I would rather feed him to goblins and get a new immigrant…).

I personally think having a multiplier of sorts to provide extra disincentive could be good for the gameplay. However the current status of the game is pretty harsh, and there is no description I can find about how it is intended to work.

In my mind a multiplier could work like (just an idea):

  1. Change citizen to farmer
  2. Farmer lvl 1 : 100 exp (x1 multiplier, because there is no other skill that is lvl 1 or more)
  3. Farmer lvl 2 : 400 exp (x1 multiplier, because there is no other skill that is lvl 2 or more)
  4. Change citizen to footman
  5. Footman lvl 1 : 200 exp (x2 multiplier, because there is one other skill that is lvl 1 or more)
  6. Footman lvl 2 : 800 exp (x2 multiplier, because there is one other skill that is lvl 2 or more)
  7. Footman lvl 3 : 900 exp (x1 multiplier, because there is no other skill that is lvl 3 or more)
  8. Change citizen to weaver
  9. Weaver lvl 1 : 300 exp (x3 multiplier, because there are two other skill that are lvl 1 or more)
    Any new skills would now have a x4 multiplier to learn lvl 1, etc…

In all honesty, this is not how the human brain works but I could see it as a balance to keep decisions from becoming meaningless. (In reality it usually gets easier to learn new skills after learning the first one…)

Edit I feel the impulse to say this somewhere:
I really like how the citizens now have a leveling system now. Even if it stays exactly as is, it is a good addition. It adds so much more depth to the decision making of this game :slight_smile: .


#7

Hey Guys, Good eye on the numbers! The system is working as intended (the amount of XP required to get a level depends on the character’s total level, NOT the level of the class he/she is trying to attain) but we do intend to keep tweaking the formula for the XP curve and the amount of XP given for tasks as we add more classes, so that it feels right.

There were lots of factors involved in picking this level system over others (because there are infinite permutations of others) but one I haven’t mentioned before is the fact that we wanted some perks to be based on race, rather than class. In this case, every time a human levels up, they gain 10 HP and they keep that HP gain even when they switch classes.


#8

Thanks for the input, I hadn’t noticed that all characters got +10 HP and kept it.

I agree that their should be no incentive to leveling up a citizen in many different skills, but still feel like a citizen shouldn’t be suddenly worthless if their current skill becomes obsolete. Could it be changed so character specific perks (gain 10 HP) is just based off the highest leveled skill? This would keep the implementation simple and even allow each skill line to have a different experience curve. This would still incentivize specialization while keeping citizens from becoming junk (eg. more strategic to feed the citizen to the goblins and accept a new traveler).


#9

Why would you prefer that?

If I understand, this is how it would play out:
Moe Burlyhands gets to level 4 (+30 Hp) as a farmer, but you find out that for whatever reason you no longer need a farmer, so you change him to a footman, he levels up as a footman, but he doesn’t gain any more health as he is higher level in farming, then when he levels up to level 5 (+40) as a footman he gets 10 more health due to 5 now being his highest level in a skill?

Wouldn’t you rather the current system, where Moe would have 40 health at level 2 footman, 30 due to the farmer skill and 10 due to the footman skill?


#10

I like the current system.
(thought you should know)


#11

As it stands now, when ‘Moe’ has already trained level 4 farmer, it takes the same amount of experience to get to level 5 farmer as it does to get to level 1 footman. So if we add ‘Joe’ to the scenario and level them up side by side, we see something like this:

Moe: changed to farmer
Joe: changed to footman

  • 3000 exp later -
    Moe : level 4 farmer (+30 hp), changed to footman
    Joe : level 4 footman (+30 hp)
  • 2500 exp later
    Moe : level 1 footman (+40 hp)
    Joe : level 5 footman (+40 hp)

Joe is a far better footman than Moe. Moe is sad…

Under the current system it would take Moe about 6 times as much experience as Joe to attain footman level 4, and 10 times as much for level 5. If they continued to level at the same rate, Moe would always be 4 footman levels below Joe even if their experience gained towards the footman skill were practically the same.

If it was changed, they would take the same amount of experience to gain the equivalent footman level, without giving Moe an unfair health advantage. In the example, Moe would be level 3 footman closing in on level 4 after the 2500 experience gain. Moe wouldn’t be quite as good (as expected), but the gap between the two would be much closer.


#12

I disagree with you.

Im sorry.

WE will see what happens.

In your example:
Note that Moe is a REALLY awesome farmer, but a not so good footman. He is not sad, just more specialized.
And hes still better then a normal level one footman. Especially with the extra health and speed. he also has ++speed.

Only make him a footman when you need a tank or are desperate, he can do his job VERY well.

The whole point of this system is to keep him specialized. Hes supposed to be not as strong (specialization!!!).


#13

I should also mention that at this point, there is no cap on the total number of levels a character can have across all their classes, but there is (by design necessity) a cap on the number of levels available in each class.