The Herbalist's Brainstorm Thread

  • Fevers and epidemics
    × The herbalist could also have a new function, which is to cure sicknesses that are brought into the town by traveling merchants, or when a hearthling catches a cold during winter

I had this thought while playing Banished the other day, and I thought it could also work in Stonehearth.

The fevers not necessarily have to be lethal. A sickness could weaken a hearthling by having him/her move slower, require more sleep, craft and work slower, consume more food, deal less damage in combat, etc. They would generally last for a few days, or longer for rarer fevers, unless treated by a herbalist.

There could also be an option to disable this if the player doesn’t want to face them in game.

7 Likes

@CrazyCandy make it a mod :smile: would be a massive extra challenge for hard mode!!

simply debuffs which has to be countered by the herbalists. but i think some ingredients which could be used by other classes would be handy

I’m very much on board with the idea of the Herbalist having a ‘gathering area’ where they grab plants; it’d be particularly nice if these areas worked twofold: first, the Herbalist gathers invisible resources (you just watch the Herbalist messing with the grass and they end up with one a short list of random items) and second, the Herbalist harvests any wild plants in the area. So Wild Silkweed or Berry Bushes get harvested automatically and then a Worker will come along to pick the stuff up per usual, while the Herbalist grabs Herbalist-specific bits like Frostsnap and others.

I also like the idea of smoke and area buffs; basically, I’m thinking craftable incense that can be placed like a buff potion and then click to light it. It’ll then provide a longer term buff in a set area around it, maybe while producing a bit of light and a wisp of colored smoke. These don’t have to be the same as the existing potion buffs; here’s a few ideas:

  • Inspiration Incense: Craftsmen within the AoE get a buff to their Inventiveness (increasing the chance of fine items)
  • Somnolence Incense: Anyone within the AoE gets a buff to their Diligence (less sleep time)
  • Peaceful Incense: Hearthlings get a Morale buff while Shepherds’ animals get a happiness buff

On the other side of the coin, you could also craft stinkbombs that work on specific creatures. These work similarly: they are placeable buffs you click to activate and create a temporary AoE. However, these create an invisible obstacle or a Morale debuff to specific creatures, either altering their pathing or forcing them to flee the AoE. Obviously this would need to be balanced carefully in terms of radius, duration, and crafting so that people can’t just bug-bomb the only way into their town and set a dozen Archers behind the smoke.

  • Herbicide: Ents and Entlings
  • Sanctified: Undead and Necromancers
  • Stinkbomb: Wolves, Goblin Wolves, and Kobold Wolves
  • Mudslide: Golems
  • Snapbang: Goblins

I also would note that there’s mention of Willpower (I think?) helping Hearthlings shake off enemy charms; I like this idea for Herbalists in terms of counters and traps.

  • Clarity Patch: A level 0 item equippable by Footmen, Clerics, Knights, and Archers that gives 24 hours of Willpower buff. It’ll boost their natural healing rate as well, although if you have a Cleric that’s a non-factor.
  • Dizzy Mist: Placeable potion that can be clicked to cause a confusion effect on all enemies within the AoE. Enemies will randomly stand still, attack each other, or wander in a random direction until it wears off. Can be used as a component by Engineers to upgrade traps or create a new self-activating Dizzy Mist Landmine (which works identically to the potion).
4 Likes

I would suggest adding Magic Point cost to cleric’s healing spells, and make the magic point can only be recovered by herbalists’ tonics :joy:
And then it’s almost making herbalists a must, but sort of tilting the balance in favor of monsters. So there should be a way to save cleric’s MP, verify the class’s skill, I mean, the cleric currently has healing aura, healing spell, we could make the aura passive skill, while healing spell active and MP costly, then adding a new active skill like debuffing monsters, which costs little MP, and adding a switch button in the unit frame, just like the archers did, to switch among two active skills and no active skills, as in the beginning, entings and little stonlins will not do fatal damage to your military units, but your town will be in lack of hearthlings for another herbalist, hence players could choose use passive aura to heal and the less costly skill to save MP.

3 Likes

I agree with @BrunoSupremo the herbalist should focus less on the healing role and also I would like to expand @CrazyCandy`s idea of healing potions that can be carried by soldiers with the following suggestion:

The herbalist will be able to craft several types of potions that can be carried by soldiers and they can have up to 5 potions in their inventory, these potions are consumed at the start of a battle and the soldiers will refill more potions when they aren`t fighting or following an order. Each potion is designed to enhance a certain class during battle and the soldiers automatically choose the right potion for them. It could go as following:

Potion of Varanus Vigour - increases maximum health - Knight

Potion of Rabbit Speed - increases movement speed - Archer

Potion of Ogre Strength - increases attack damage - Footman

Aqua Sancti - increases healing animation speed - Cleric

2 Likes

I think having them consume a potion every single time they meet a goblin thief could be a tad bit expensive. I think they should only consume those potions if the odds are against them, like when they are outnumbered by the enemy or are facing a powerful foe.

2 Likes

+1 for Herbalists “gathering” instead of farming.

I like the idea of them being an alchemist in general, making poison for traps or special ammo for missile weapons.

Why not make Clerics simply BUFF friendly troops, with a higher HP cap (would act the same as a HP boost) or other effects, so you still require a Herbalist for actual HP recovery long term?

1 Like

another idea would be to bring in real injuries and debuffs (similar to fallout series where radiation lowers your maximum hp), so the cleric can heal the hp to the maximum let’s 200, but once the soldiers get in fight they get more injuries their maximum hp gets debuffed at a certain amount and they get speed and dmg debuff, so after a while your army will run around with lowered stats aslong they don’t get treated properly by the herbalist.

1 Like

That would actually be nice. Clerics heal HP, so hearthlings can keep fighting, but in battle there is a chance for them to get debuffs like “Fracture”, “Large Gash”, “Poisoned” etc. Those give debuffs to damage output, maximum health etc of the hearthling and could only be healed by a herbalist. Would also help against the “Win or die”-meta Radiant tries to remove, because there are consequences in battle that don’t necessarily lead to the death of all defenders and the wipe of all hearthlings.

It’d be cool to see soldiers injured like that, requiring “hard” treatment as opposed to “soft”. Would add more personality and emotion to your hearthlings too!

To add a different spin to some of the good points here; I like the idea of expanding the herbalist from a simple “potion maker” to more of a chemist/alchemist role.

A potion is a simple, highly practical item – so it makes a ton of sense as an early item. However when I think of the true value of chemists, they really amplify stuff other people work on. This could impact almost any other profession:

  • Refine Sugar/Salt as a preservative/enhancer for a cook
  • Fertilizer for farmers
  • Steroids for fighters (or something less controversial; villager augmentation is another topic entierly)
  • Acids / varnishes / additives / fancy materials (e.g. glass, rubber, paper, synthetic fibers) to help craftsmen craft high level items
  • Enhance the cleric’s powers with pharmaceuticals to heal the sick and … ehem … “sacramental” wine to help them commune with Cid.
  • Explosives…. I’m sure someone could find a use.

Basically I’m thinking of modern chemical companies - BASF, DOW, Dupont, etc – these are big companies that we really don’t see but they have huge impacts on all sorts of other industries.

1 Like

In the tread “What stonehearth can learn from RimWorld” there was an suggestion that required the herbalist.

@mCharger :

A big thing I’d like to see Stonehearth add is the “downed” state to soldiers. In real life, most combat casualties are not instantaneous, and in medieval & ancient war, you were much more likely be wounded than killed, and I think it really adds to the drama of combat. If your knight is wounded to the point where they can’t fight anymore, your footmen should have to respond by changing their current action to respond to your knight going down. Make it easier for your fighters to become wounded enough to be “downed” and tie their recovery into the herbalist class. Make Stonehearth players feel the rush as that single brave Hearthling makes a mad dash across a field as arrows close in to save their buddy from an Orc’s coup de grace. It fits in really well with RimWorld’s deep medical mechanics, but it also really could work well with Stonehearth’s current classes and healing. It’s not hard to imagine a badly wounded soldier being carried by his buddy to the herbalist to be healed, while any minor cuts and bruises are healed by the cleric on the field. It also would prevent your soldiers from chashing a fleeing enemy across a field who has a meagre amount of health left, since they’d be incapacitated.

In another thread, the idea came up to have to need a herbalist to relocate plants.

@LeadfootSlim :

I’m certain you’ve done this before; you embark to a region and find yourself surrounded by a scattering of silkweed, or perhaps a bevvy of berries. Industrious sort that you are, you decide to relocate them near your town so you can safely harvest them with as little waiting and travel time as possible. But then you find yourself doing this every time you start a new town, and it gets more elaborate… hedgerows of berry bushes by the dozen become a status symbol, and the sheer density of your silkweed arrangements makes your weavers’ heads spin.

However, such convenience in living-off-the-land runs counter to the design goal for the eventual Northmen - a faction more focused on combat. If they can simply pluck what they want and plonk it in their town immediately, where’s the danger? Where’s the adventure? They’ll be able to build their longhouses and wall off their silkweed gardens almost immediately, and never leave the safety of their happy homes.

So what if we change things up? What if an Herbalist of a certain level was required to relocate plants? It’s easy enough to do - simply grey out the “move” icon on the plants, and when mousing over it, add a tooltip indicating the required Herbalist level. (Edit for clarity: Any Hearthling can move the plant, so long as you have an Herbalist.) Here’s an example breakdown;

Now, now… this is one nasty bump, I admit. But!

333 days passed since this topic had been active, and 333 days without love for our poor little herbalists.

The thing is, I haven’t played the game for quite a while. A few days ago I played a bit after this long break I had with Stonehearth, and found that the herbalists’ uselessness bothered me more than it truly should. Honestly, it was a long break, and I haven’t really followed the updates, but almost a year is a long time, and so I thought maybe they did something nice to the flower folks. But they didn’t.

Still, of all the many gripes I had and still have with the class, the way buff potions are handled is what makes my head ache the most! The fact we have to search for them in the game world (whether in stockpile or placed) to activate them is quite annoying. I do realize they don’t add a lot to the overall efficiency of the town, but if my poor little flower girl went through all that effort to produce those things, I want to use them!

So if Santa would be kind and deliver something for Christmas(the earlier the better), I would like to claim this opportunity towish for a better potion system, something along the lines of what I had in the original post.

A simple button somewhere on the UI…or the ability to set them on auto-consume…or both!

And again, sorry for the epic bump.

This is some excellent feedback imo - really like this point of view!

I think if anything the cleric, using magic, should buff the speed that crops grow when not fighting. this is a natural progression in my mind after herbalist, combining plants and magic. perhaps even a carnivorous plant that can be used as another type of trap, that does not require maintenance, but does require you to store up magic, or mana to begin growing it so that it only targets specific enemy types (bosses probably immune) and thus you are limited by events more than anything, and this requirement could be adjusted based on difficulty and terrain type. even planting them in different types of soil could boost or delay the growth of the plant trap. I think its a good alternative to the engineer, whos skills would be put to much better use making actual mechanical things that are not magical turrets. I think you might see that the direction for the engineer is in the way of the magical classes of the future.
of course going with the healing theme as well there could be plants that have auras that you can place around your town that slowly heal your hearthlings throughout the day, or does something similar to potions, or just as an added effect to foods that speed the recovery of hearthlings during meal times

Make a 2nd tier job called warlock/witch that can create offensive potions, poisoned/cursed weapons, cast curses on enemies, create protective spells for your city and it could be used optionally as a combat class throwing potions that can do AoE damage/healing. Of course it’ll lose the ability to heal bedridden hearthlings and craft herbalist potions.

I think herbalist is good as it is, it only needs more potions and some extra crafts to be worth to keep more than 1 if any.

1 Like

oh and why has no one thought of herbal tea as drinks that boosts healing? all this food and nothing to drink. hearthlings must be parched!

And what about creating kegs, beer and wine, it could be even another new profession. it could increase the mood of your hearthlings to have a drink with their food and even give them special buffs.

Oh and i know there is a brewery mod, but that’s not even close to true brewing imo, irl it takes a looong time to make those.

Herbalist would make more sense if potions were used by individual Hearthlings automatically rather than manually applying them to the whole town. Class-specific potions could be brewed and Hearthlings should be able to automatically use them when the buff is gone. This would be more anti-micro as I could queue potions and Hearthlings would auto-use them so no intervention would be necessary.