Changes to Potions/Bandages/Cleric


#1

What I would like to see is, that potions and bandages get different roles

Potions:

  1. Every hearthling can equip one potion if available. The game will prioritize soldiers to get the available potions first and if all soldiers have a potion with them, citizens start to get one too.
  2. When health drops below 50%, the hearthling will automatically drink a potion which heals a small amount of health (25% maybe).
  3. Potions do NOT heal status effects that got caused by dropping below 75% / 50% / 25%health (see bandages)
  4. A health potion can only be used once per ingame day (hearthling receives a debuff named “prevent overdose” once the potion got consumed)
  5. There should be an extra window for global potions that increase stats from all citizens. When opening this window, you can click on the potions to consume them and buff all your citizens.

Bandages:

  1. Bandages can only be used by an herbalist and when hearthlings lie in a bed
  2. Bandages always heal 100% health (but heal over time), no matter how much health a hearthling lost! The difference between the lower and higher quality bandages is, that higher quality bandages need less time to heal a hearthling by 100%. So if it takes 60 realtime seconds (at normal game speed) to fully heal a hearthling with 25% health, it may only take 20 seconds with the best quality bandages.
  3. Bandages DO heal status effects that got caused by dropping below 75% / 50% / 25%health.

Cleric:

  1. Since the cleric does the same job as the herbalist, but better, I suggest that the cleric can’t heal wounds (like I suggested with the potions). This makes the herbalist indespansable in the long run, because you need someone who treats wounds from badly hurt hearthlings.

This would make the herbalist class way more important and also more useful. Right now the herbalist gets kinda “useless” once you have a cleric around.


#2

You mean they wouldn’t be able to heal status effects or they wouldn’t be able to heal at all?

I agree that the cleric is so much more powerful than the herbalist that there isn’t much reason to make a new herbalist after you have a cleric. I like your solution of allowing hearthlings to carry health potions, though 25% health doesn’t seem like much - maybe 50%? However, this could potentially fill up hearthling’s bags with a bunch of potions (even if they can have only one at a time - assuming there is more than one type of potion) unless there is something like a ‘potion only slot’ more like an equipment slot. Potions would then need to be prioritized by level and have restrictions and what not - just like weapons and armor.

As another way to improve the balance between herbalist and cleric, I think an herbalist should be able to track down a severely hurt hearthling (i.e. not in a bed) and stop them and heal them, or potentially instruct them to go to a bed, despite whatever they are doing, to be healed. There are many times where my hearthlings will end up dying despite all the herbalist potions and bandages I have available simply because the hearthlings never sleep in a bed.


#3

These are very interesting ideas and I definitely want to see the role of the Herbalist expanded.

Just some follow on question and thoughts

Would this take up one of their 4 inventory slots or would/should they have a special slot for it?

I know that this is a fantasy game and follows the tradition of “potions” (mana, health, energy) being instantaneous. so I am not rocking that boat. These are more for thought exercises.

But I see that the Cleric deals with supernatural healing (Magic) vs. a Herbalist using traditional holistic or herbal remedies. This may lead to follow on classes such as an alchemist or doctor classes.

On the role of Bandages vs. Potions
The way I look at this is that Bandages are used by first responders, they stop the bleeding and prevent or slow a condition from worsening hopefully until the injured party can be treated by a follow on care provider. Much like a combat life saver uses gauze and a tourniquets until a combat medic is available. Making sense for Soldiers to carry these things into battle. Bandages would be used for more superficial wounds (small health gain) or to prevent damage from getting worse (moderate health gain) with a heal over time effect in the category of an infused bandage (Bandage containing Herbal remedies). The Potions (Herbal remedies) made by a Herbalist are more medicinal for treating internal injury or conditions such as disease’s/Poisons. So either removing or adding a buff or debuff. (such as temp HP gain, Remove Blight, or heal over time.)

One thing that could be looked at is where dose the Cleric draw their power from. It could be a divine gift/Ideology that is activated by the combat event. such as powerful healing during battle but once the “Honor/Glory/Compassion/Blood thirst/,etc…” event is over they are exhausted until divinely/Ideologically empowered by combat again.

and couple this with a Herbalist tracking people down.

Just some thoughts


#4

They still can heal health, but the wound debuffs won’t get removed until treated by a herbalist with bandages.

With my suggestions, potions would always be useful, because any citizen and soldier would have one and could use them in an emergancy, even if the player doesn’t pay attantion or if there is no cleric around. Clerics would obviously be the combat healer, who is always close to the soldiers during battle and bandages/herbalist would be the out-of-combat healer, who treats severe wounds and therefore cures the wound debuffs (like walking slow etc.). So every item/class would have it’s purpose.

About potions using one slot: I think it shouldn’t use a slot. They should have a slot only for this potion (like an accessory) and receive a debuff after drinking the potion that doesn’t let them equip a new one until that debuff is gone (after 24hours ingame time).


#5

That makes sense - but I think the debuffs should also go away after a certain amount of time, or after a nights rest or something.

I agree, that seems like a better option.


#6

Yes, but it should take a long time to let the wound naturally recover. Maybe long enough to have at least 1 or 2 more fights until healed (unless the hearthling didn’t receive a new wound in the new battles).


#7

I really like the suggestions made by op, although maybe only for hard-mode? And being forced to habe a cleric AND a herbalist in early game might be difficult, when you have only 7 guys to play with.


#8

The question is: Do you really NEED a cleric in the early game? If your soldiers survive battles, they get fully healed by the herbalist. A cleric is only needed when enemies start doing more damage then you can handle in a single battle. The player must decide “when” he promotes a cleric and if he does to early, he may lack workers and if he does it to late, he may lose soldiers. I think this would be great, because it gives the player one more decission he needs to consider.


#9

In hard mode, i feel like you either need two soldier and a cleric or three soldiers relatively early on. Of course, you coumd always change between cleric and herbalist all the time, but that seems like annoying mikromanagement that will never go as you want it too…


#10

I think the problem now is that the cleric is always better. They do what an herbalist does, but they do it in the middle of a battle, instead of only at night if the hearthling is sleeping in a bed.


#11

On Hard Mode you need a cleric by the time you get ten soldiers, yes – the enemies attack too frequently to wait for the herbalist to heal them up.

EDIT: WHURPS I meant ten HEARTHLINGS my bad

Late-game the Herbalist becomes useful again for potions.


#12

Well, having 10 soldiers is more mid/end game for me. I’m talking about early game, where you have 2-3 footmen (or some upgrade dto archer/knight). At the time you have 10 soldiers, you will surely have enough citizens for a herbalist AND a cleric :slight_smile:


#13

This is my favorite idea for combat changes. I’d love to see the herbalist remain relevant after adding a cleric. I sometimes just spam the herbalist making workshops until they level to cleric which is not how they’re intended to be used I’m sure. If herbalists will remain in the game, something like this should be implemented, in a mod if nothing else.

I’m going to float a couple ideas I came up with about differentiating their roles, but I’d prefer your suggested changes before anything.

Herbalist

  1. Harvest crops with cooks and farmers
  • Gain yield bonuses to harvesting berries, flowers, etc
  • Produce speed buffing potions for workers to take in the mornings
  • Produce experience gain buffing potions for crafters to take in the mornings

Cleric

  1. Grant temporary hit points on damaged characters but don’t cause real HP recovery (you always keep 1 HP if you run out)
  • Damage undead with healing aura

If any player suggestions make it in the game, I’d like your potion carrying mechanic to be the first.


#14

I like these ideas! Definitely agree.


#15

These are excellent ideas - I would love to see the Herbalist improving the crop fields (that’s such a cool synergy idea : )). And I think more potions like this are definitely needed.

These suggestions I’m not so excited about. The ‘damage undead’ functionality would either make undead unviable vs a cleric, or would make a cleric necessary if there were an undead threat. And the ‘temporary hit points’ thing would drastically reduce the effectiveness of Clerics - I think it would make them nearly useless : /.