Theere was this stream recently about effortbased crafting. In that stream, up came the concept of having certain items influence how quickly an item gets build,… provided they stand in the same workspace of course.
I had an idea for those supporting items. At least make one class of those items out of tool boxes and tool shelves. The idea behind it is that crafters can make stuff easier if they have the right tools for it, as supposed to having to use your hands and talisman for everything.
- Tool boxes and tool shelves are pieces of furniture that can be placed near workshops
- They are made empty, and when they are, they don’t really have an influence on the crafting time.
- Currently, the crafter needs to make every item with two tools, his/her talisman and their two hands. This is, as you might imagine, slow.
- You can buy, loot, trade or craft tools (which are items) to speed up that process.
- You need to add the tool item to the toolbox or shelf (toolholders) in order for it to speed up crafting.
- The toolholders are specific for each crafter. Im not sure whether the tools should be.
I do like the idea, but how close would they have to be? It’d seem a bit contradicting if you had to surround one of them with ALL the crafting tables, IE; Fletcher = Better bows.
Sorry for the delay, had my exams
“Darnit, all these workbenches are in the way of my toolbox ”
When I was thinking about it, I had in mind that the toolholder needs to be in the same room/workspace as the crafting tables, but now I think about it, that definition of ‘near’ quickly breakes down.
will have to think about that one.
So, according to the design document (Devstream 265) abou effort based crafting, supporting items need to be in line of sight, and in close proximity. I don’t think that is how toolboxes would need to work.
I mean, that toolboxes need to be in close proximity is a reasonable thing to ask, but line of sight doesn’t really makes sense for a toolbox. As I watch the devstreams about this (nr. 262 and 265), I get the sense that the line of sight is because the supporting items are meant to inspire a crafter. Toolboxes don’t need to be inspireing, but do need to be easily accessable. So maybe instead of line of sight, use ‘within a certain pathfinder distance’.
With ‘within a certain pathfinder distance’ I mean that the pathfinder should be able to make a connection between the toolbox and the workbench (in line of reach, so to speak), and they can’t be x blocks apart, measured along this pathfinder connection.
Is that something that would work?
There are a few questions I don’t know how this all should work
- should toolboxes be owned by a crafter
- should there be fine toolboxes/tools, and if so, what do they do.
- does it matter what tools are used for what item crafted, or does the amount of available tools matter.
If anything, Mid-crafting if there is a toolbox, the crafter should go to it and work there. Sort of like;“Wait, I need my knife to make this bow from this log!” and they run towards a stand of “Fletching Tools”, go back and work with a knife instead of a saw.
yea, that would be cool.
I heard @sdee talking in the stream about a different system than effort based crafting, where the crafter, goes to different workbenhes if that workbench performs the action that is needed at that point in the production process.
If you’d combine all those things with your idea, just imagine how a blacksmith crafting in his workshop would look. Walking for bench to bench, walking to the toolbox to grab a different tool, back to the workbench again. It would really look like there was actual crafting going on there.
Crafting is sure a thing.
I think find a way to connect speed / effort of craft is good and I think your ideas have potential.
I took the problem on an other way. Because mentoring is good and books are good too. Is it possible that a given item is craft more simply (effortlessly) if it is crafted previously a certain amount of time before (like the crafter made a recipe or a plan for that tool/item).
If, for example a crafter lvl5 is working and a crafter lvl1 is hired, is it possible to make the item according to the overall knowledge of the crafters and not of the on who build the item. The lvl5 is like a mentor and help the lvl1 to craft his item.
What do you guys think ? (hope my idea is clear enough )
This is how I interpreted your idea:
You want a system where, for example, the second chair will be less costly effortwise than the first, because of the chair-crafting experience of the crafter. But that does not depend on just the individual crafters chaircrafting experience, but also said experience of other crafters, (or maybe written craftplans or books). This allows for some kind of mentorship.
There are a few questions I have at this are:
Whould a mentor crafter need to explain to the mentoree crafter how to make a chair?
How does that process go,
- Do the crafters have a conversation about chairs before they start?
- does the mentor crafter need to stay next to the mentoree whilst making the chair.
- does a random conversation about chairs convert the chaircrafting experience,
- Do crafters write plans for making things after they have crafted them. And the mentoree crafter just reads those before they start. or
- is it just a numbers game. If there is an experienced crafter, there will be a bonus on crafting.
You were also talking about books. That gave me an alternative idea to use books for making crafting easier. They can work just like tools, but instead of being tools used in th crafting process, they are pieces of information on how to make something. For us it looks different, but in game the two systems can have the same mechanics, as in:
- Bookshelves are also pieces of furniture that can be placed near workshops
- They are also be made empty, and don’t influence the crafting process when they are empty
- You can buy, loot or trade maybe have a lvl 6 crafter write it books or plans or blueprints (which are items) to speed up the crafting process. Maybe something like ‘the art of chairmaking volume 1: Wood by Matt Burlyhands’.
- Books also need to be in the shelves to make a dent in the crafting time.
*provided that the bookshelf is within a certain pathfinding distance and within close proximity.
It would also be cool if a crafter occasionally walks up to a bookshelf to consult the wisdom in the books.
Thx Nikosthefan for these questions.
All ideas beneath are just my analysis and therefor pure subjectivity.
The first idea was just “number game” as you said.
Conversation and Mentor
I didn’t thought that conversations would be introduce in the process at first place. To be honest, I don’t know how it could be introduce smoothly into the gameplay.
Indicating that exp/bonus is linked to speech seems a bit odd because you can’t control the conversations of your hearthlings. You can’t use and prepare strategy this way. For example if you want to fast train an hearthling, the mentor is busy working and don’t want to pause the work to teach the mentoree or the conversation is never about chairs yours bonus time is totally unreliable.
When 2 crafters have different levels
the lowest level get a bonus (based on the level difference for example). Each crafter keep their habilites and this could be tweeked by a limit on a maximum level to apply this bonus (when all “first aid” craft are unlocked the bonus is no longer applied) <= this limit level has to be discussed to balance and stabilize the game.
the highest level get a minor penalty to sustain the mentoree/simulate the time spend on mentoring. This will slow down his progression.
This add another gameplay element. The player will have to wisely choose the moment he want some hearthling to level up or not and he will have to manage the 2 workers 1 job situations. Thus it might be a good idea to invest time in blueprints and books.
Craftplans and Books
Craftplans and Books is a new Item create by the crafter (so it can be sold and buy). This can unlock the items to be craft at the level the book or blueprint is draw. This way a level 1 carpenter can craft level 3 items.
This can be used in situation you want to change jobs affectations but you don’t have enough heartlings or your only carpenter died. You don’t have to “farm” stockpiles or other cumbersome items to level up your new crafter.
But of course this have to introduce penalty on crafting time if the item crafted is on a level higher than the crafter level.
With theses new elements the player could now have interest on a “2 workers 1 job” play to boost production or train most crafter in one time than successive trainning. Or the player can just backup and simplify/steady the production by creating books. Without mention that these items can have value (knowledge is priceless ).
Hope it has answered your questions and sprout up new one hence new ideas.