How to support joint translation efforts?

I’m not sure I fully understand the question. But translation is 100% manual, like in the most basic Excel sheet.

I hear you regarding the HTML, I don’t think it’s a problem as long as they are not too common (still not a problem, but perhaps annoying). I rather have a misspelled word or missing punctuation than crashing the game due to an incorrect HTML tag :wink:

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sorry, i meant i wasnt sure if you were doing anything like automatically replacing common words (using a lookup tool to replace common words, like “the”, “yes”, etc.)… which wouldnt make much sense, now that i think about it (trying to blend manually translated text and dynamically translated content)…

dont mind me… carry on! :smile:

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I really really really don’t see the issue with HTML. From personal experience (and I had to do this with LaTeX, mind you, which was much less forgiveable than HTML and yet people without any LaTeX knowledge, myself included, managed to translate the dictionary in about ten different languages by copying the LaTeX commands), if you want to support translators there are two things that you could do: First you could have a HTML check included (i.e. “the amount of < and > has to be equal”), which might also check if tags are balanced (i.e. “<li> requires that </li> is present”). The second thing would be to have transparent multiline support that is automatically added (using a set of rules, for example <p>, </p>, <ol>, </li> will cause a new line after). Perhaps throw in indention if you want to.

If that is done,

First, find a suitable spot for your new home. Pick a spot with easy access to:
<p>
	<ol>
		<li><b>Food!</b> Wild berries often grow in the forest.
		<li><b>Lumber!</b> You'll need wood to do just about anything.
	</ol>
		
	When you're ready, click the banner then place it where you would like to settle.

doesn’t look too scary. Except I just noticed that they aren’t closing their tags, aaaa.

technically, the closing </p> is only required in XHTML…

but absolutely… it is always good practice to provide the closing tags (when they are available)…

Technically, closing about every tag is not required in HTML (at least, not HTML4) - but then again, HTML is a mess too. Since there is a lot of JS going around that modifies the DOM however, it might be a good idea to keep Chromium’s chances on interpreting something wrong as low as possible…

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@Tom, you’ve been caught!!! Don’t make me call the String Oligarchy on you! :wink:

@tkh, good eye. No, there should not be html formatting in our en.json file.

Edit: @RepeatPan, Hm, ok, I do see the benefit of allowing the translator to change the number of list items. Still, it’s probably not a great separation of model and view.

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It’s not a great separation but it’s the easiest one. The only way I could imagine right now would be to use some sort of templating system that translators could be overridden by translators (i.e. "create_camp_page" : "{{create_camp_header}} <ol><li>{{create_camp_item_1}}</li>...") to adjust entries for their needs.

While this would separate M and V nicely, it’s also restricting - developers need to create a template if they want to do more complex stuff.

For the dictionary project I’ve mentioned I simply assumed that people willing to translate it are not members of a worst case scenario. Even though they might not be able to understand what this LaTeX tag does, they are able to re-construct the formatting in their translation. If the whole thing is under peer review (by multiple translators/players using the translation), errors are detected quickly and should not be hard to fix.

The worst issue that I’ve had in those… four years and about ten translations (but all in all 15-20 translators I believe) was really missing brackets.

Absolutely, that could even be within reach for my programming skill level.

However. It feels like the heavy discussion regarding HTML tags could have ended, and I’m not a translate guru (nor speak more than two languages)… But I’m still not convinced to that some languages need 4 rows to explain something where other languages only need 3 :wink:

Thanks for the reply @sdee, even though it’s not impossible with some tags I think it’s a good approach to leave them outside. And as soon as you have an idea of language ID for files (if it’s a separate file or within the translated file… or any third option), feel free to tell us :blush:

I have two things left to fix in my program before I can “release” it to be tested by you guys. First I need to handle when translation files have tags that are not in the original file… or are longer than the original. Also need to fix so my datagridview resizes correctly in all directions (currently only works horizontally…). And since I only have time to code during breakfast and perhaps a little during weekend, the first alpha is still one or seven days away. Though I won’t add any more functionality other than perhaps add an “add row” and “delete row” button.

The list example is a bad one. Much better examples would be when you need to highlight parts of a sentence or a text, for example Click on your <b>Camp Standard</b> to blah blah. This can easily be achieved with tags, but is really painful with a more abstract implementation (having variables inside your variables/templates in your templates).

I’ve had people with zero LaTeX knowledge translate So {\bf tsun}, for example, can be either [\texttoptiebar{ts}un] or [\texttoptiebar{ts}\textupsilon n], but {\bf lu} is always [lu], never [l\textupsilon]. Also, an alternate method of transcribing the diphthongs [\textepsilon j], [aj], [\textepsilon w], and [aw], not used here (for Frommer prefers the former), is [\textepsilon\textsubcircum{\textsci}], [a\textsubcircum{\textsci}], [\textepsilon\textsubcircum{\textupsilon}], and [a\textsubcircum{\textupsilon}]. successfully, so I don’t think a few simple HTML tags are going to be an issue.

I think this would be a good opportunity to start working on my new version of said translation tool actually… This time using ASP.NET.

I haven’t messed with this in a while, but the idea is basically that there would be a de.json, sp.json, fr.json, etc, one for each language.

The language can be then set via a menu option somewhere in the game. See: http://i18next.com/pages/doc_init.html

I think this is really fascinating too, and I’m glad you’re thinking about it, @amegaara! Basically, Psycopathic Misathrope swears a lot, but the game is supposed to be E for everyone, so he can’t use actual swearing. In fact, he probably shouldn’t even really say “screw this” except that he really does think of it like, to turn a screw, screw. Maybe I’ll replace it with “Rotate this.” or something similar. He can’t say the F-word either, but the word sounds like Fork, which also sounds like Spork, so he’s expressing the universal frustration all people feel when trying to use a lame plastic utensil to stab or cut things.

Hope that helps your translation efforts. Basically, I would advise replacing his lines with a humorous exclamation of aggravation.

I can’t talk more about Sid at the moment, but perhaps more will become clear in context. :slight_smile:

Yeah, this is probably because the font we use doesn’t support those characters natively, and the browser is falling back on some other font. If you find a font that really works for your translation efforts and that looks good, let us know… You should be able to replace the font in the css/less files, if you can see them.

It’s really really cool for Team Radiant to see the game in so many languages. :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: Thank you all so much. We are all charged up for the week now!

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I must say, I know his pain.

Sitting in your seats during the interval at the theatre, with those little tubs of ice cream and those stupid spoons. Whilst delicious, if they’re even slightly too cold…well spork will definitely be the word I’ll use next time. :wink:

Interesting to hear the stuff about swearing/exclaiming. Definitely useful info for those translating. :slight_smile:

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The one that always comes to mind for me is how all through the 90s the KFC near my house had only plastic sporks available to eat the chicken with. Why???

Credit for the utensils should really go where it’s due; to Mark Shallow’s long finished Adventurers!. Though convergent evolution here does apply; just talk to any engineer who has to fork a repo/branch in source control.

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For my particular case, I just need to replace two fonts, the rest show characters with accents in the demo files, or a list with the glyphs that they have. But for those people with non-Latin alphabets, surely they will have to change more fonts or all of them. I think of this as another way to contribute to the game. The most difficult part when searching for a suitable font is to find one that looks good and similar to the original. And of course for free. But there’s a lot of them, so I’m sure we’ll find a solution. :blush:

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Because KFC is sacred and you must honour its traditions, e.g. eating it with your fingers :wink:

I may have a crack later tonight at putting accents on some of the letters in paint and see if I can get it to work as a font with the accented letters included. I have no idea what I’m getting into so it may be fun! :slight_smile:

Edit: Well the first step would be to actually know what font they use. Derp.

Hmmm. I’m pretty sure it’s not Stronghold, the one they use for e.g. the logo on Discourse.

And I’m pretty sure it isn’t Berlin Sans. Why? Because if it is, then extended latin letters (and a large array of others) are available already, so accents wouldn’t be a problem.

Can anyone help? I’ve done a little snooping, but not an enormous amount.

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I don’t know to which font are you referring to, but I’ll say that the font which says ‘Founder’s Manual’ is Grobold, and the font used to explain what do you have to do first is Autourone. The font you’re saying that has accents, if it is like an ancient writing, for example to write in a papyrus (I don’t know if it’s the font for the character sheet’s log) I think it’s Blackbeard.

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i have been translating on and off for some time and now i am thinking of postponing it till i get my hands on the game (im not on the alpha list sadly) so i get a clear idea of what should be done to
1-make the text appear or have better appearance
2-look at all the context of the “thoughts”

so im looking forward to the release to start again my journey to make this game available in arabic! (even tho there is probably no arabic speaking person that knows about this game lol)

We may find one on Browse Fonts - Google Fonts or http://www.fontspace.com/ - but first we must get some quotes with as many as possible unique characters to check.

I am currently checking with phrase “zażółć gęślą jaźń 강남스타일 日本ひらがな” (polish unique chars, korean hangul, japan kanji and hiragana).
And atm I found one (o_O) unicode font which supports Korean symbols.

…or we may have 2-3 fonts for each ‘task’. First for latin-extended and cyrillic, second for Japanese, third for Korean…

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…you haven’t mentioned chinese. In my particular case, I need that áÁéÉíÍóÓúÚüÜñÑ look good within the font, in an only character or combining an accent with the character.
For the moment, I have found several fonts with extended latin that caught my attention,

I also found one arabic font(with latin extended) and one nubian font (with coptic characters @_@). And other fonts with exotic characters (tibetan, myanmar, khmer, nepal) but I doubt we’ll need these ones (correct me if I’m wrong, I just find them beautiful).

Last, I found funny typographies like Burnstown Dam (and MisterVampire).
Only people who use typographies with special chars know if they look beautiful within the game or not ^^U
I’ll keep searching for typographies because I don’t really know if the ones I mentioned look enough right (though I should try them as @Sdee suggested) and I haven’t found for korean, japanese and chinese characters.

(By the way… do these posts belong here? Should they be in the ‘How to support joint translation efforts’ thread?)

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good call! :+1:

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