Hard should be Normal, Normal should be Easy?

#1

Despite some new issues, I’m enjoying the new combat build. A few thoughts:

Some of the newer creatures didn’t appear until (at least for me) until after I had gone into my options and increased my maximum hearthings. If feels like you are missing out on some of the fun until you have at least 22-23 settlers. I’m worried that the default is hiding some of the new creatures - our maximums should be at least 30 and not 20.

With the setting on hard the game seems about… what normal should feel like to me. I know a bunch of stuff is getting created and added right now, but I would love a higher difficulty setting. Would you consider making normal > easy and hard > normal and then give an even more difficult setting?

Some of the adjusted level requirements for tools is silly. A shepherd’s staff is not more difficult to make than a table and chairs. I’m not sure any tool should require any crafter be be over level 2 to make.

Good job guys - keep going!

#2

deafult hearthlings is max 20, however you can change that

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#3

There are no difference in monster spawn between normal and hard. You get the same types and same sizes only difference is the monsters on hard get special training. making them much harder to beat. And idk how far you have been in hard mode but its seems pretty challenging to me. (have you played it more than 2 in game months? seen the kobolds and orcs raids? Also boasting your net worth will make it harder too. )

#4

“Hard” still needs a little tweaking (the first few days are too rough, enemy archers are a little too strong) but overall I agree with you regarding difficulty – hard mode feels like normal and normal feels like training wheels mode.

Shepherd’s staff is especially annoying for Rayya’s.

Past that though I think the setter # cap is more a function of people’s computers and the ongoing optimization issues than anything else. They’re clearly intending for the base population of most people’s forts to be between 25 and 50 settlers, we just aren’t there yet technically.

#5

I don’t know what’s changed in Alpha 16, but I always wanted a mode easier than normal yet with actual combat, unlike peaceful.

#6

I have played a few months into the game. I’ll have to go back and check for far I am in now, but I’m not done yet. Orcs didn’t start spawning until after I had raised my cap. Same with the necromancer crypts. I’ve been actively looking for kobolds as I hear they are nasty.

This is what I’ll say about difficulty:

Little things, like starting location, can make a huge difference in a game. If you can only be attacked from a single direction, it makes a huge difference.
Biome can make a huge difference - take away easy access to iron, and watch what happens.
Player goals within a game are important - some people come into the game with building project - some people come looking to hunt the monsters.

I love similar games that are harder (or can be much harder) than this one. For example I’ve played dwarf fortress for a many years and like to toss in the fortress defense mod and settings to see if it even possible to survive. So by comparison, not getting wiped out by monsters is easy (for now). At the same time, I don’t build 2 story buildings in game because of the issues, and there are players who have no issue doing that right now.

I want people to be able to play the game that makes them happy, so I am interested in more options. We already can set this to peaceful and have no combat - and now we have normal and hard. But fallen comrades don’t come back to life as zombies, get cursed into were creatures, or get infected with sickness or poison because of what they fight, giving your herbalist something to do again once you have a cleric. No large squads/armies have shown up yet. The more options you have to customize the difficulty, the more challenges you can set up to conquer.

I like the things that are getting added - but don’t stop! I need more!

#7

One thing that would help add a lot to this game’s difficulty is to add a lot more challenges that aren’t combat.

Hearthling personalities, quirks, and happiness/unhappiness need to be developed and refined in a lot more depth, such that managing morale is a real challenge.

Weather and weather-related challenges (not just storm damage – happiness, etc.) need to be implemented.

It’d be nice to see more engineering and building-related challenges; traps, collapsing rock damage, fall damage, etc.

All of those would take some implementing and probably require other systems to be in place first, but it’s pretty telling that this game still literally doesn’t have a fail state implemented – if everyone dies the fort just continues on, there’s no implemented loss condition, nothing approximating the tantrum spiral of DF, etc.

The net result is that without non-combat challenges the game is basically just a building sim; there’s relatively little “game” there. Which is fine for now because getting the building sim right is the core development challenge but it would be nice to see the game side of things fleshed out more.

#8

Maybe something more of a roleplaying options to make the more challenging.

Pacifist: Not army bigger then 5 allowed, double farming yields.
Barbarian clan: Double the strength of the foot man, but no other combat units allowed.
Fortress economy: no importing of goods, allowed, 50% less mobs spawn. (whole groups thou, not 50% have the units)

#9

OK a few more updates.

The archers had to appear a few more times before I realized that they were archers. They can be a legit threat once you get them in numbers. However, I needed about 24 people in town before enough show to to be concerning.

A few things I would like to mention:

I would like to know how/if constructions affect monsters spawn points. I started having creatures spawn inside the town wall I had started building, which really defeats the point of using said wall to funnel them to where you want them to show up for their “dance lessons”.

I would also like to know if monster spawns consider the location of your units in game. I had a very close call where I had about 10 people go inside a cave to bring back ore, and then had a huge spawn right on top of them at the mouth of the cave entrance trapping them all inside. That is going to make a lot of people upset as it seems unfair.

Clerics need beat’em sticks because they are clerics. Let the book count as their shield, and them them use 1 handed blunt weapons. It gives you a reason to make varied weapons like swords and maces.

My lvl 6 knight loses aggro to my lvl 6 footman all the time. Is this intended?

I would like to set up patrol routes for a party, and let them travel as a group. Their desire to send all their time watching the crops grow where everything is quite safe and secure isn’t very helpful for protecting the town.

#10


so anything you build counts to this

#11

OK, that video was way more useful that I expected. Maybe we need to build a list of videos for new people to watch so that they can get up to large towns more quickly.

Thanks for finding/sharing that one.