[Dev blog] Desktop Tuesday: What to Expect from Stonehearth Alpha 1

i hate replying so late to the discussion. Multiplayer is key for me. this alpha will provide some nice demos on how the game will work but for me its a waiting game so me and the misses can build our empires together :grin:
as the the account i read up there somewhere i would imagine you would have an account to log into to play, otherwise how would you get access to teh kitteh and puppeh!
do we have combat in the alpha1? :open_mouth:

Not by the looks of it!

"Hereā€™s whatā€™s in Alpha 1:

Random world generation
Ability to choose where you want to settle
Harvesting resources (wood, berries, etc) and storing them in stockpiles
Basic crafting, with one profession: the Carpenter
Day/night cycle
Your citizens will eat when they get hungry and sleep when they get sleepy
Basic construction of walls and houses
"

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no titans to destroy my hard work? no waitā€¦ the no save function will do that for me :). guess i will have to leave my computer on 24/7!

Well, as @NonBritGit mentions above the lack of saving is a logical one:

Also the reality of the build is that itā€™s probably going to be more exciting in short contained bursts where you restart each time.

But no, no titans at the moment!

Be happy that the ball is now rolling and we are starting to reap the rewards!

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not long now! im keen to get aā€™ cracking. Will be getting the steam download if one is available. will have to play while inebriated at Christmas.

Itā€™s all detailed in this blog post my friend :smile:

http://stonehearth.net/2013/11/26/what-to-expect-from-stonehearth-alpha-1/

ā€œYouā€™ll have the option of a direct download or installing through Steam. Weā€™re still working out the details on Steam, so that may come a little later.ā€

as @Geoffers747 mentioned, it doesnt appear soā€¦ but i get the impression that alpha 1 is just thatā€¦ the first in many alpha builds to be pushed out to the early testersā€¦

which, when you think about it, is really part of the early fun to be had with the clientā€¦ playing a build that is missing features, or has major imbalances/flawsā€¦ then reporting on those issues, and seeing your feedback taken into consideration in subsequent builds, that include new content and features, as well as adjustments based on feedback youā€™ve providedā€¦

go collaboration! :+1:

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I will give a different opinion from other people. For me, I am disappointed, it seems that very little work has been done in 6 months.

Harvesting resources and storing them in stockpiles -> Already in the ā€œfirst look at Stonehearthā€ video.
Basic construction of walls and houses -> Already in the ā€œfirst look at Stonehearthā€ video.

Disappointed yes, but to be honest, not at all surprised (I won a bet with a friend that you will not be willing). Since KickStarter I came every day on the Stonehearth site, I saw all the livestreams, I have read all the articles on the site and forum. And this is what made me realize that the game would never finish in time. Why?

The EVO, no work on Stonehearth for 2 weeks.

On the LiveStream, seeing Stephanie or Tony back home at 4PM.

During the Desktop Tuesday seeing that Tom has added 100 voxels or a few small icons in relation to the work he had done during the last livestream, in 4 or 5 days.

The last point is the most telling, having a rest room, ok there is one in any business. I admit I never went, or work in America, but here in my office, there is no room for playing playstation or Xbox ā€¦

The problem is not really that the game is not in time, we wait a little more and thatā€™s it. The problem is by doing a Kickstarter, you are committed to all your backers to make a viable beta in December 2013. A question arises later, the game will actually be release in September 2014 or will you still be late?

Yes, sir. This is what disappoints me too. We also have seen basic combat. Why is that not in the alpha? I mean IT IS alpha as everyone says here. So give that buggy combat to me, too!

I already said here that i expected a pushed back release due to the lack of definite information. And i nearly was right. The devs said they considered pushing the release back.

The ongoing steps backward from naming the december release is also something that bothers me. First it was called ā€œbetaā€, afterwards it is a preview and now it is alpha. And an alpha is A LOT LESS than a previewā€¦

Iā€™ll wait and see what you guys are reporting before i buy into the game. Iā€™m glad that there is someone that does not only see this game through pink glasses!

Letā€™s break this down shall we, you are obviously entitled to your opinion, but letā€™s take a step back and look at all this shall we?

Indeed there was chopping, hauling, and building in that first video. The basis of these systems were already in place, but these systems were by no means perfected or anywhere near finished. Throughout the development they have been reworked and altered according to whatever needs to be altered.

This thing isnā€™t just done with the creation of a model though, they need to have the models, animate the models, code the models into the game, etc. etc. It is a long process that is made quicker when the base for each system is in place.

You know what wasnā€™t in that first video?

Random world generation
Ability to choose where you want to settle
Harvesting resources (wood, berries, etc) and storing them in stockpiles
Basic crafting, with one profession: the Carpenter
Day/night cycle
Your citizens will eat when they get hungry and sleep when they get sleepy
Basic construction of walls and houses

EVO is a long term commitment for Tom and Tony, it is something they are extremely passionate about and deserve the right to run that, okay so they were unable to work on the game for two weeks ā€¦ I think with the amount of time they are all dedicating to this that they are allowed other ventures.

Was this 4PM your time? I mean, Iā€™ve watched a livestream or two where theyā€™ve gone home at 5/6. We have no idea what work schedule theyā€™re on, nor how many hours they work each day - maybe they had other commitments that evening? I donā€™t think we should be judging an entire 6 months work based on a livestream or two where members of the team have gone home at a time you deem ā€œearlyā€.

He doesnā€™t just dedicate his entire time to one icon and then spend weeks on it, he will create something and then come back to it at a later date - thatā€™s what he always says during the livestreams. The livestreams are a way of the community to interact with the team, and sitting there watching him code for 2 hours is perhaps less inclusive/ involving than working on a model.

Iā€™m pretty sure the team are allowed to have breaks now and again? I highly doubt they spend long periods of time in the rest room, unless theyā€™re having a rest ā€¦ itā€™s not a space for them to not do their job, itā€™s a space for them to take some time out, move away from the task at hand and have some thinking space.

Itā€™s unhealthy to work continually on something like that for excessive periods of time.

The stance I am taking is that the term ā€˜betaā€™ was the best fitting term to describe the type of process we are being involved in. We are all aware of this type of model, the most popular example being Minecraft, where we get an early build.

The reason they no longer refer to it as Beta is because they felt it was an unfitting term for the actual product we will receive in December.

Who knows? They have aims and goals for September 2014. Their desire to ensure a build is made available in December is the first stepping stone towards this goal, will they make it? Thatā€™s an age old question is it not? Indie development is never plain sailing and nobody can predict the future.

Take each month at a time.

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Double post - sorry.

It is Alpha 1. The first Alpha build we will see and play with.

When one thing is fixed another thing breaks, and introducing too many elements in one time is perhaps counter productive for the process - it is easier to identify and sort out the issues in a smaller amount of systems with less clashes I imagine - Iā€™m not a developer, so that is just anecdotal.

I hate definite dates. What is the point? This sort of thing is too complex to say ā€œyup, December 17th guys here we go.ā€ So many things can happen, or difficulties arise that push these dates back, and if there was one thing I could suggest from following a fair few other indie games is never provide a date unless you are certain you can make it as problems will always arise.

The fact they have committed to providing us a build when they could quite easily turn around and say ā€œwe canā€™t let it be released guys, weā€™re not happy with itā€, to me shows their desire to involve us and be transparent with us.

See my above comment. It was Beta, and really that signified the type of process we were being involved with. The ā€˜Preview Releaseā€™ IS the Alpha, there is no difference there, preview release is really a meaningless term and Iā€™m not getting into an argument over semantics.

We have a solid term now, Alpha 1. the first alpha build we will have, and hopefully the first of many.

I will be critical if there are things to be critical of. This situation is not one of them.

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I can fully understand comments like from @Llewellyn and @Poly and I think we will see more and more of them. If you wait day and night to play Stoneohearth, you might be disappointed by December. What can help is to think about it like you can support the further development with your feedback (still around a year left prior release) and you can start getting involved in modding the game. The later is why I am looking forward to December. Playing the Alpha 1 can probably keep me busy for a few days. Modding it has the potential to keep me busy for monthsā€¦ and that is what I also expect from the final game.

Nevertheless, different people have different expectations.

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I just give my opinion in a little ā€œnastyā€ way maybe but this is only my opinion. But apparently you prefer people who only follow others. Ok then I try : Good work Team Radiant!

@Llewellyn donā€™t give up. A community needs all kind of people and there is nothing wrong with having a different opinion. I also donā€™t think that the devs want to see here only people who love everything they do (not blaming anyone to do that though :wink:). Constructive criticism will help to improve the game for all of us.

I am not in any way saying that you canā€™t express your opinion. But similarly you canā€™t express an opinion and expect it to stand their unquestioned.

The whole point of the discourse is to engage in discussion and work through problems/ issues constructively.

You expressed your opinion, and I replied with my take on it all. There needs to be a consideration of both sides. It is obviously easy to come in and say ā€œthis is wrong because of thisā€ or ā€œI disagree with thisā€, the test comes when your opinion is reasoned, questioned, other points of view are introduced, and you reassess your thoughts based upon everything you have been told.

As @voxel_pirate has said, we need all sorts of people and constructive criticism is a must have.

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nothing of substance to add here, other than healthy conversations are indeed encouraged ā€¦

my take on all this? wait and see for yourself what is revealed in December ā€¦ judge their progress, and comment on their work, once you have it in front if youā€¦

just my humble opinion, of courseā€¦ :wink:

Well, Iā€™ll be the one to say welcome to the forums! :stuck_out_tongue:

Thereā€™s no point me revisiting what @Geoffers747 said, so I am simply going to elaborate on some points.

The reason theyā€™ve not made as much progress as predicted and perhaps you could say ā€˜broke a dealā€™, was to keep to another. By this I mean the fact that theyā€™re delivering an Alpha having offered a Beta. Honestly I donā€™t see it matters too much, the name implies the amount of content that will exist and the state of bugs etc. but I think their Beta had Alpha-like qualities planned anyway. Itā€™s still being delivered on time, which is great. But the reason they havenā€™t made as much progress as they would have liked to is because theyā€™ve been reworking several systems to make them more moddable.

And to be honest, I feel a lot of progress has been made. Just to expand @Geoffers747 list, crafting, one of the core features of the game, now exists, having not existed at all in May. This is a grinding process, but theyā€™ve made it even more so in order to save much more time later, as recipes will be easier to add in for them or mod in for us (and thatā€™s actually done by exactly the same process). Building has been reworked since May, so it is now better than the pre-alpha videos showed. The engine, which has taken up a lot of the time, is now mostly there, certainly to support running the game and its core features. Tomā€™s collection of models is staggering, proven by the fact that in the Template thread there are 44 models, and nobody even considers being close to having half. Of course we arenā€™t shown everything in the streams either, this law enforced by Tony ;), to make sure we havenā€™t seen it all by release. Food and sleep are both systems that are on their way to being done, and Day/Night is practically finished.

Youā€™ve got to give credit to Albert for doing random world generation so quickly. It took like just 2 months! And thatā€™s a fairly chunky system, and will very much be needed.

Combat is actually not in the Alpha 1 because it is being reworked, so that it is better. Iā€™m not sure whether the combat in their KS video actually worked in-game at all, I donā€™t recall hearing it either way. Combat was not good enough in their eyes, so it is not being included as it is not finished. Thereā€™s no point including completely obsolete combat, risking breaking other systems.

I canā€™t say I agree with your ideas that itā€™s progressing slowly, but oh well. :stuck_out_tongue:

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I would just like to say to everyone who isnā€™t happy with the progress of the game. Please remember that when this game was in Kickstarter it was being made by 2 people. They have expanded their team to 6 now. By comparison Hearthstone by blizzard said they were working on the project with a small team of 30.

Further in order to make the game more customizable they have reworked almost every aspect of it. As stated in a live stream (donā€™t remember which) they are taking extra time to make sure that each aspect is mod-able instead of just making a code in 5 minutes that works.

When we started backing this on Kickstarter and pre-ordering we all knew the game was not complete and was a dream. Be happy that they are working on it, be happy that they are trying so hard to keep the promises they have made, be thankful they arenā€™t pushing back the release, finally just be excited as the game is almost here even in an early stage and you can start playing it and be a part of the development process of this game.

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Well, everyone else has pretty much said everything I was gonna say in my 2 page counter-explanation. :smile:


But there is one thing I simply must say: Would it be better for them to rush through and give us all (or most) of the game content not as best as it could be - or for them to take their time and put all of their effort into everything they work on (even if it does take time), and next year - where ever the release date falls, we get a ā€œperfectā€ polished product that will have us captivated for ages. And them taking their time to make everything simple to be modded, will ensure that after the game is released - and weā€™ve gotten tired of the original content - weā€™ll have a ridiculous amount of player-written content that we will NEVER be able to complete all of -leaving us with a endless amount of content. This alongside of regular updates from the devs. I personally think that they should take all the time they need to make sure everything is the way they planned for it to be and every aspect of the game moddable - so that in the end we have the game we wanted - the best it could ever be.

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Wait, when will Alpha 1 be released?