A24.2 feedback thread

Before we start, I’d like to note that I do realize that the balance of the new banners/hearths/shrines is not final yet. What comes next is just some general feedback and suggestion concerning the balance of this new stuff and the restrictions they come with.

So, where do we start?

In A24.2, the progression of towns has been rewamped. That’s great! Now, from the very beginning of the game, the player is provided with a bunch of choices.

The first thing I’d point out is that the beginning of the game is now riddled with choices…

  • First we choose hearthlings
  • Then right after, we pick a starting point
  • Then we have to pick our starting items
  • And now, we also pick a banner just moments into the game

The first three gets us through three different screens, while the fourth happens in-game. Now, this is just a minor gripe, but all of this could have been integrated into just one screen where we pick the map, the hearthlings, the items, AND the starting bonuses.

I understand that the goal here is to establish a sense of progression from the very beginning, but holy cow, let us breathe for a moment!

Pick a thing out of three, and stick with it forever
Oh, Glorious Candy Corn, why! Oh, why!

Personally, I am not a fan of the concept. It is very limiting gameplay-wise, and usually boils down to one must-have choice against two mediocre choices. Plus, it feels like a cheap solution to an issue which did not exist.

Why do I say it is limiting?
Well, obviously because if you happen to change your mind about it, you must start all over. That sucks. I would much prefer if the choice was about something you start with, but throughout the game you can acquire the other two. If that’s a no-go, then at least grant us the choice to change our minds without having to start over.

The choice which comes too early?
Do I want a mining town? Or do I want a vast farmland? Hmm.

Normally, when I start a new game, I have zero idea where am I going to go with it. Usually it takes some in game days before things finally start to take shape. Before that, I’m just messing around chopping some woods and moving all the plants from the map to near my camp. That worked out since I play the game, because, honestly, never was I in a hurry.

But now a silly bird storms in, and demands I make a choice!

The choice itself and balance concerns

The banners come with the following bonuses:

  • Vitality:
    – 25% faster plant growth (trees and regular plants)
    – 25% more wood from trees
    – 2x plant appeal

  • Banner of Strength:
    – 50% more ore, clay, and stone from mining
    – Negated cramped environment thought

  • Cunning:
    – 3x road speed bonous
    – 50% item sell value
    – 2x stock and gold for merchants

Vitality seems an okayish choice, but in the end you don’t really need all that much wood and faster plant growth just means your farmer will not be able to keep up with plants. But whom do we make all that food for? Are we waiting guests?

Strength seems rather weak. Considering we can just hide the mining zone directly under our town, that 50% more yield doesn’t save us all that much time.

Cunning is super overpowered when compared to the other two. The faster roads boost the efficiency of our town a LOT! Higher efficiency means a lot more goods produced for sale. Not only do we have more goods, they all sell for 50% more! On top of all that, any merchant who passes by can afford twice the things we make. Since any merchant who brings stone or wood or ores now has 2x the normal amount, and now we have ample gold to buy, we really are never going to miss the bonus of vitality or strength.

The second choice

It was stated this is a WIP thing now, and that the bonuses are super weak. Yes, they are super weak.

I only got to test the Hearth of Glory so far. I chose this because the other two seemed super boring (of the Makers) or super super weak AND super boring (of cheer).

Hearth of Glory summons a bunch of undead monsters, which seemed hella fun at first, then got old quickly, since after some point the difficulty stopped increasing and the thing just kept spawning a bunch of giant punching bags which barely scratched my knight. Plus they all dropped iron maces, which resulted in the world’s most extensive iron mace collection. Obviously this will be balanced in the future, so this isn’t the issue.

The thing which worries me here is that with three choices there’s one fun choice which involves good ol’ monster bashing, whereas the other choices are rather boring passive things.

Again, I know this is still WIP, just wanted to make a point here that if you give us choices, make sure all of them are fun in their own way. Like the Hearth of Cheer could spawn a feast and visitors would come, and Hearth of the Makers would make crafters work a bit faster or something.

The final choice

I haven’t got this far in game, plus the legendary weapons aren’t even in yet and the quest is still the same as before. So all I can do is be a good’ ol’ smartass here.

Shrine of Fortune gives random townwide buffs. I didn’t see it yet (as stated above) but I am going to assume it works the same way as buff tonics, where we manually activate them. If so, I might suggest an option to automate it, because going back to a thing every now and then to click a button isn’t fun.

Shrine of Valor unlocks recipes for legendary weapons (which aren’t in yet). I sure hope these are just SOME legendary weapons and not ALL legendary weapons. It would be a real shame if every legendary weapon would be limited to this one choice.

Shrine of Masterwork unlocks a new, better quality (masterwork) for crafted items. As much as it hurts my heart to miss out on a better appeal level for items, to me this isn’t very appealing. Sorry, I am more of a legendary-weapon-person. (Just another reason why I am going to hate if the bonuses are to remain choice-exclusive throughout each playthrough.)

More gripes against choice-exclusive content, suggestions

So as I made it obvious throughout my writing, I am very against locking the bonuses to a choice. Up until this update, every major thing was open for the player to mess about with without having to start a new game, and so a new game was only really necessary if we wanted to play a different kingdom.

Choices so far mostly involved minor things, such as befriending the goblins, or whether or not to defeat Ogo in battle to get his “Bonker” and his standard.

The consequences of the new choices, however, are massive and irreversible. Besides, the message the birb brings says we should pick a banner about what our settlement represents; we look at that and decide our people are more of a nature folk… and then we see the bonuses. This sort of ruins it: we aren’t picking what the town represents, we are picking arbitrary bonuses.

Why are the bonuses even tied to the banner? That doesn’t make sense… The hearthlings supposedly carried that blue banner all the way from whereever they started, and now after we read a message, it suddenly becomes magical and trees nearby decide to grow faster. Really?

Was it always magical? If so, and we got to decide what kind of magic it makes after reading the message, why can’t we change it at will?

And in the end, do we even need a bonus? We seemed to be doing fine before without them.

A couple of suggestions:

  • Separate bonus from banner symbol, and let us change both at will independently.
    – Alternatively, let us acquire all three banners through extra effort.
    – If the bonus is separate from the banner, then why not add more choices? These could be changed at will through a button on the banner’s unit frame.

  • Provide an optional quest to build the other 2 hearth styles after picking our first. After this is done, we would have to pick which one is active, and the other two would “go to sleep”
    – Alternatively, provide an optional quest to replace our current hearth with any of the other two.

  • Since the bonuses of the shrines are quite big (unlocked items and appeal tier), I would like to suggest a series of quests which is increasingly difficult and through it we could acquire all three shrines in preferred order. Considering that before this update we could build all three fountains, this shouldn’t be too big to ask for.


I think all this seems too harsh. I apologize for that, I didn’t intend to be this negative. It’s just that when it comes to feedback, usually the bad stuff gets pointed at quicker.

The new way of progression is very welcome, and is quite a nice touch. The execution just has some issues, that’s it. And even then, this could be just the opinion of me alone, while everyone else loves choice-locked content or whatnot. The new hearths are lovely!

Whew, this got a bit long.

Now is the time to invite everyone to provide their own feedback, opinions, and suggestions about the stuff of A24.2. So let’s roll!


Thanks for posting! This is definitely the kind of feedback we’re looking for on town progression.

For banners, currently choice exclusivity is an intentional aspect of the system, partly so you are motivated to build each city you play differently (e.g. focusing on paving roads vs collecting plants). We are, however, working on a way get more than one banner buff at the same time - more on that in April (this is not counting multiplayer, where different players can take different buffs and share the return with others). On the lore side, the current work-in-progress take is that consecrating the banner with the symbol is where the magic comes from. We’ve considered separating the icon from the bonus, or allowing several variations of each, but then why have the icon at all? It would no longer symbolize anything.

For hearths, I really like your idea of Hearth of Cheer/Makers also allowing interactive events like throwing a party or temporarily boosting productivity. It’s a little odd that these would be purely positive events while the glory one is a challenge, but it’s an interesting direction to explore.

For shrines, Fortune does grant its buffs automatically. Valor and Masterwork are indeed major bonuses and we are considering making them non-exclusive, but it does make the choice a lot less interesting if you can always get them all.

@Rabid_Llama may have more to add on this.


I just tried the new patch and I quite like it,
First thing I noticed was that I tried to build a mining town with my mining buff, this is new to me and I probably wouldnt have tried it if not for the insentive.

Its just a fact of life that you cant have everything you ever want, and I feel its perfectly fine to limit choises to the player. If I wanna know what its like to befriend goblins (didnt even know that was a thing!) then I guess im gonna make a new town with more merchants and such.

For constructive critisism: I too feel that the first bird comes around way too fast. I would like it to go atleast a couple of days, that way it would feel special and players would, as crazycandy stated, have more of an idea what to make of this new settelment.

in bugs I found that items would disapear… I would make something and try to place it and it would never be placed, but once I made a second copy of the item it would get placed…


easiest solution is to close out the window for selecting the banner, and procrastinate selecting one until your ready

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Is it not a positive event though? I mean, you can cancel the attack/summon at any time if there’s a risk of it overwhelming your defences, so there’s virtually no risk involved if you pay attention to the combat. On the other hand, you can use these challenges to train up your guards (making them much more capable of holding off the enemies you can’t conveniently cancel out of existence), gain rare resources/drops, and boost your town worth potentially very quickly.


I thought I’d sworn off unstable. Well, I guess the team added too many nice things.

It seems like with the food you get to celebrate starting your town, you almost automatically get a Hearthling the next day (at least, when you pick the set with all the talismans and get 10 berries to start off with as well.) I don’t know if that’s desired or not, but it seemed a little too quick for me.

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I don’t mind choice exclusivity, but the buffs should be smaller and there should be more decisions to make to earn buffs. Then there’s more of a gradual progression of powering up AND the player could either enjoy maxing out certain things during the course of a game or diversifying their buffs.


I have a lot of Problems Program Crashs witout error close in Windows.

Every reload comes this:

release-798 (x64)[M]
CHECK failed: C:\rb\ihome\root\SH-OB0-BUILD\stonehearth\source\lib\lua\ai\compound_action.cpp:357 Thinking flag unset while restarting thinking.
stack traceback:
radiant/modules/commons.lua:53: in function ‘report_traceback’
radiant/modules/commons.lua:64: in function <radiant/modules/commons.lua:58>
[C]: in function ‘clear_think_output’
…th/ai/actions/find_best_reachable_entity_by_type.lua:140: in function ‘_set_result’
…th/ai/actions/find_best_reachable_entity_by_type.lua:76: in function ‘found_cb’
stonehearth/components/item_finder/item_search.lua:169: in function ‘_call_found_cb’
stonehearth/components/item_finder/item_search.lua:187: in function ‘_call_found_cbs’
stonehearth/components/item_finder/item_search.lua:156: in function ‘_on_leased_solution_ready’
stonehearth/components/item_finder/item_search.lua:117: in function ‘instance’
radiant/modules/events.lua:291: in function <radiant/modules/events.lua:285>
[C]: in function ‘xpcall’
radiant/modules/commons.lua:73: in function ‘xpcall’
radiant/modules/events.lua:285: in function ‘trigger’
radiant/modules/events.lua:374: in function ‘_fire_async_triggers’
radiant/modules/events.lua:449: in function ‘_update’
radiant/server.lua:67: in function <radiant/server.lua:64>

What is the purpose of banners?

There is a lot of potential for this banners mechanic to emphasize the uniqueness of a town. There should not be several bonuses bundled into three distinct choices. While this might seem like it’s allowing players to focus on different town types, I think this bonus structure is attempting to pre-imagine the three types of towns people will want to create.

What If i wanted my town to be a beautiful agrarian town, with fine cooks that export delicacies to greater hearth? The “vitality” banner seems like it’s intended to fit that, but in reality all those spread out farms actually benefit MORE from the road speed bonus and the sell value of the “cunning” banner.

If I wanted to create a militaristic mountain dwelling people, exporting intricate stoneworks and the highest quality weapons and armor, I’m likely to have settled as high up in the mountains as I can get away with, where arable land is limited, and might really like to have the faster plant growth. Faster wood production to fuel the fires of the blacksmith would be nice too.

Overall, I like the idea that your town can be personalized with some bonuses (and you can’t get them all!), but a greater number of smaller bonuses, and the ability to chose more of them, would actually allow the towns to be personalized meaningfully. Say 20 bonuses, and you can get up to 4 or 5 of them for example. Just a few things i can think of… (edited after a bit more thinking)

Lets call them "Banner Virtues"

Virtue Bonus description Describing Adjective
Courage Bonuses from armor increased Courageous
Bravery Bonuses from weapons increased Brave
Enthusiasm All Hearthlings gain road speed bonus even when not on road Enthusiastic
Beauty Appeal of stone, cloth, and clay furniture and decorations increased Beautiful
Nature Appeal of plants, crops, trees, and wood decorations increased Natural
Prestige Appeal of trophies and monuments increased greatly Prestigious
Gallantry Attitude bonuses from combat thoughts increased, penalties reduced Gallant
Generosity Attitude bonuses from eating tasty food increased, sale price increased Generous
Creativity Attitude bonuses from crafting thoughts increased Creative
Kindness Attitude bonuses from social thoughts increased Kind
Mindfulness Mind stat of all hearthlings increased (by 1?) Mindful
Tenacity Body stat of all hearthlings increased (by 1?) Tenacious
Spirit Spirit stat of all hearthlings increased (by 1?) Spiritual
Excellence Sale price of higher quality items increased Excellent
Fertility Perks for producers strengthened (farmer, trapper, shepherd) Fertile
Industriousness Increase stone, timber, clay, and ore yields. Industrial

One of the key mechanics to use for town customization is to amplify the happiness and attitude effects of things that make your town a little special. So, a significant number of good ones I can think of are related to happiness.

The mechanic for adding more virtues to your town could center around a towns actual banner, which has space for a few symbols of virtue, and events allow you to add new symbols to your banner, that establishes the towns identity in a very customized way. Clicking on the town banner could open a special menu for this, where your banner can be visualized. You could add requirements to adopt each virtue, or make the advancement simple and incremental, or perhaps tie it to the township quest line directly. This banner could feature prominently in your game saves as a way to identify the town as well.

Maybe this is more detail than some players want, but I can already think of several fun combinations of these banner virtues to try out.


The thing is, I’m not really motivated to play each city differently. Give it some time, and everyone will have their own favorite choice and will stick to that one throughout every single play.

If what you say about the unlocking more than one banner buff means that the choice is simply to pick the starting buff, and throughout the game all of them can be unlocked, then that should be fine.

The party could also challenge the players to satisfy the guests with food/drinks/entertainment. Whereas the boosted productivity is just a random idea I threw on the table, and I’m sure something more interesting could be made.

As for the exclusivity of the hearths… What did you think of my suggestion in the OP where all three could be built in the same town, but only one can be active at a time? This would keep the hearth’s bonus somewhat exclusive still, but at least the players are granted the ability to change their minds.

The choice could be still meaningful though, by making the acquisition of the other two significantly more difficult.

As for keeping “big” content behind choice-walls (legendary weapon and masterwork tier), well, that’s really really not nice. Players who choose one thing might easily regret their choice, and would be disappointed to find there is no way to get the other more interesting thing. Disappointment is never a good thing in a game.

Besides, there’s just really no logical reason why a city powerful enough to acquire the prowess to craft legendary things could not also acquire the ability to craft masterwork things too.


Just my opinion, but unlocking all the buffs in one town sounds very Monty Haul and is gonna affect replayability for some.

So a new game for you will only be necessary 3 times, one for each kingdom (4 with dwarves). Whereas, exclusive buffs would encourage players to try 9-12 different towns, without even taking into consideration mixing and matching across the themes. The more the players play, and experiment, the more comfortable and creative they’ll get. It’ll inspire them further to build towns based off of techniques they just figured out in the last play through.

It’s a matter of not seeing the choice as a limiting factor and more of a nudge to try out different builds. As soon as I saw the options I thought “I’m gonna have to build at least 3 new towns, now which biomes for each one” lol.

I’d rather keep the exclusivity and give some sort of option for a do over if the player isn’t thrilled with their choice. Maybe a free switch for the first one and after that a hefty cost for future changes. Not crazy about having all the banners/hearths/shrines in one town it cheapens the accomplishment and the effect of each.

That being said I found the time between the first and second choice to be very short. It’s no wonder Harold was slobbering all over the second letter. That poor lil guy has been flying his little heart out. When Merl showed up Harold should’ve been resting on his head or something. Oh and I loved the flavor text about Harold as well as the perfect name choice.


My thoughts:

  • Items shouldn’t be locked behind choices, but I’m okay with their crafting being locked behind those choices, at least at first.
  • Maybe merchants could eventually let you unlock some of the recipes for things you can’t get due to your choices as well.
  • I think every tier letting you pick only one option out of three forever isn’t the best way.
  • I’m certainly fine with some exclusive choices, but maybe there should be a tier or tiers that aren’t. Getting to pick another option for a tier should be considerably more expensive/difficult, though.

Agreed that it feels like the second letter comes too soon.


Players experimented and tried different styles without an arbitrary bonus telling them what they should focus on. What I was trying to say is that by locking certain things behind a choice wall, they are tying the players’ hands, and so players won’t be able to incorporate certain things into their experiments, simply because they chose another thing.

Cities are constantly changing things. A city which thrives off mining one day will run out of things to mine, and will have to adapt. Likewise, a small farming town can find itself in a situation where it has to turn into a bastion of warriors to survive.

I’m not entirely against choices, but let players dance back on their choices to some degree without being forced to start over. Let us replace our bonus to something else for a small fee or something, don’t force us to stick with our choice forever!

1 Like

I can not continue to play my savegames because there is something wrong with the gold.
I should probably have a maximum of 2000 gold pieces and not as many as in the picture watch.

Okay, I get what you’re saying. I mean the idea of decorations being locked behind choices did make me a bit sad, cause I have a tendency to snatch every mod with any sort of decorative element lol.

I’m not opposed to the idea of allowing players to re-choose, sometimes a decision isn’t as glamorous as it seems. I just think if the cost is negligible then it’s almost like having all the buffs at once since you can just switch back and forth between them as the situation requires. Maybe a freebie for the first one and then make them progressively more expensive which would be a good gold sink.

If we did get access to all the buffs, I’d definitely recommend the other 2 paths we didn’t choose to give a fraction of their buffs. I also love your idea about unlocking the options the player didn’t choose through quests. That would be another great way of expanding some lore and giving the players other goals to work on.


Just my general feelings since I’m not playing on the unstable branch at the moment. I’m not sure I like the idea of being shoehorned or locked into something simply because of " so you are motivated to build each city you play differently". That being said, I also understand that allowing a city all the bonuses would be cheaty or whatever.

I like flexibility when I play. One of the draws of Stonehearth is that it’s very sandboxy and by forcing players into boxes, you take away the whole sandbox. Surely there can be some compromise where you choose your main path and those bonuses are the strongest but, as others have suggested, a way to unlock other bonuses through quests or something that make you have to work for them (and, honestly, you should have to work for the main bonuses to). Make the secondary and tertiary bonuses less powerful.

Also, maybe offer us a true sandbox mode where we can do whatever we want and use all the buffs or not use any of the buffs, etc. It’s a ‘city builder’/society builder and those are the aspects that drew a lot of people to the game.


New game new error after the third save load comes:
release-798 (x64)[M]
…hearth/components/scaffolding/scaffolding_region.lua:1092: attempt to index field ‘_scaffolding_region’ (a nil value)
stack traceback:
radiant/modules/commons.lua:53: in function ‘report_traceback’
radiant/modules/commons.lua:64: in function <radiant/modules/commons.lua:58>
…hearth/components/scaffolding/scaffolding_region.lua:1092: in function ‘_update_scaffolding_size’
…hearth/components/scaffolding/scaffolding_region.lua:499: in function ‘fn’
radiant/modules/events.lua:288: in function <radiant/modules/events.lua:285>
[C]: in function ‘xpcall’
radiant/modules/commons.lua:73: in function ‘xpcall’
radiant/modules/events.lua:285: in function ‘trigger’
radiant/modules/events.lua:374: in function ‘_fire_async_triggers’
radiant/modules/events.lua:449: in function ‘_update’
radiant/server.lua:67: in function <radiant/server.lua:64>

My bug arises when I create houses of blueprints.
I now test whether it happens with newly created buildings.

I don’t think, at least for the initial banner choice, that you should be able to change it. If you do, only early in game. That is because the banners nudge you to design your towns differently. A town with road buffs will make more use of roads. If you change that in the middle of your game, you need to deal with all the changes that brings (which, now I think of it, could be a good price to pay for it, although it is very uncontrollable from a design standpoint. Maybe that does change my mind.). Instead, maybe in tier three we get the option of making more banners, details are as follows:

  • Your original banner ‘upgrades’ to a bigger, more permanent monument (as I’ve suggested before).
  • You can have the ability to have multiple different banners, as well as their buffs.
  • Since the magic responsible for the buffs comes from the banners (from what I’ve heard), having mutiple banners that you can place around your city will create sectors. In each sector (area around banner), there will be different buffs. By placing these banners however you want, you create your sector layout, so no boxing in there.

This creates the gameflow where you first focus on one aspect a city can excell at, then you grow and can handle more things at a time, so you create sectors which are catered to their prupose within the town. It further expands the gameplay beyond tier three, because it opens up alot of things you can still do.

Then for things like items being locked behind choice, you can have traders sell them to you, you can get hearthlings with the skills necessary to make certain crafts. If all cities would get all of these, you wouldn’t have to choose. However, if the game tracks the general type of city you are, the game can change the chances that you get these things based on that. That would work out to a system where you can get everything, but certain things are more likely in certain towns.


For new buildings or the official buildings, the bug does not occur.