Set sail, You Scurvy Dogs!


#1

So I made the Hull of a Frigate, I call her the Surprise after one of the ships in the books I am reading at the moment. I have not finished her and she is far from complete but I hope for her to be my first animation when I am done. Sadly, Despite my amazing(ly terrible) skills at Qubicle I can’t quite figure out what to do with the sails. Any suggestions would be nice and I hope I can work with @Teleros to make a crew for her and maybe mod it into the game…Turn the land into water, Turn the trees into wooded isles…The bushes into bushed isles…Anyway I am getting ahead of myself and showing you all my ideas that you thieves will now probably steal! So tell me what you think and any suggestions to help finish her would be nice (Ships are female and referred to as her instead of it by the way)

Wow, making this ship has really made me realise how bad at qubicle I am and made me realise that I have not used Qubicle in AGES, Here is a drawing of a frigate for reference:

Also if here is a Red Coat just to show @Teleros.


#2

well it is better than anything i have done:)


#3

Finally someones done a post on modelling ships thank you so much @newf


#4

wow, @Newf… nice work! the ship looks great! did you also model the unit? :clap:


#5

Looks really good first of all, to make the sail look less odd may i suggest making the ship bigger so the masts is a 2X2 thickens so the sails look less wonky when its one square thick or will that make the ship to big in proportion to the world?

Also the redcoat looks awesome!


#6

Yes, I have been posting that guy for quite some time.

Are you interested in modelling ships? Because I would love some help.

I will try that.


#7

Looking forward to it! :smiley:


#8

No i just love naval history and naval tactics etc.)


#9

Lol I think I used that image of the frigate for some work when I was at early high school…


#10

Anyone any ship classes that they want me to try to build?


#11

Well a man-of-war would be quite nice also all the details all of them the cannons basically i mean


#12

Love the little redcoat (Royal Marine version for ships perhaps?). For the ship… yeah it’s a low-detail model, but in a lot of ways that’s not a bad thing - makes it easy to get the basic shape right before you stretch it to make it larger & more detailed. Also, don’t forget that Stonehearth will (eventually) get proper bodies of water etc.

As far as the dimensions go, I’d say (just eyeballing it) that your model looks perfectly okay. I’d definitely want to scale it up so I can add in more detail though. The black and yellow banding is something specific to Nelson’s ships BTW, which the rest of the Royal Navy later adopted - it’s good for the Royal Navy, but you may want different colours for the Ascendancy / Raya’s Children / whatever.

What else… bit hard to tell, but the actual hull may want to be a bit thicker. Have a look at the pics for some of the Aubrey-Maturin books’ ships on this page:

http://www.ctbasses.com/misc/BruceTrinque

Especially HMS Surprise (these the books you’re reading BTW?). It looks like the cannons tended to be quite high up, or at least that there was more ship below the gun deck.

So, some thoughts on a sailing vessel mod…

1. Ship designs:
Rowboats and canoes will work as early game ships - say 6 people tops in a rowing boat, which means you can ferry people across small stretches of water, fish, and so on.

Scaling up, we can start with things like cogs (15-25m long, so 7.5-12.5 Stonehearth people), which had crews of perhaps 20 sailors. Not exactly the best sailing vessel, but they were used a fair bit in Medieval Europe. There’s also the option of Viking-style longboats.

If you want a Classical rather than Medieval European (or later) design, triremes and such are an obvious choice, but as galleys they were more manpower-intensive than sailing ships. However, even up until the 1500s and later, galleys were very dangerous warships - more dangerous in fact than the sailing ships of the era. It was only when you started getting big sailing ships with equally big ranks of cannons that the galley fell out of favour.

Scaling up further, we get things like schooners, which could be a fair bit longer than that, but which didn’t need enormous crews. They were apparently used as “motherships” for smaller fishing vessels. Could also be used for whaling in-game.

18th/19th Century warships are probably too big in most cases - even frigates had ~28 guns minimum for the Royal Navy - think 160+ft long and 100+ sailors. A ship like HMS Victory (104 guns, 70m long) would require ~850 people to run, which I’m guessing is the “game-crashing” end of the scale for Stonehearth :smiley: . So, your HMS Surprise is probably the largest thing we’d want.

2. Infrastructure:
At the very least, we’ll want some kind of dock structure, so that you can easily get from land to ship and back. That means building out over impassable terrain, and possibly sinking supports into the water. Ideally you’d have some kind of dynamic design, with a variable length so that you could click & drag a dock out from a start point out into the sea. This kind of programming may make it into the game for bridges etc - otherwise give @RepeatPan a poke.

That just deals with getting to/from the ship though. Real ship construction requires either building it on the shore & floating it out on a high tide (something I doubt Stonehearth will have), or building it in a drydock… which means doors to let the water in, pumps to remove it, and so on.

Oh yes, ships are in many ways constructed like buildings, so you need to consider how the workers are going to build the ship too. If nothing else, they will have pathing requirements, scaffolding, and a means of carrying cannons & supplies onto the ship so they can plonk them down like they do with any other in-game object.

The other option for building ships is either magic (poof - it appears in the sea where you wanted it to), or it’s an object “placed” at the end of a docks, like a bed or fence gate is placed on a piece of land. Much less infrastructure-intensive, but it would look silly.

3. Sails:
My thought for sails would be to make a huge flat white voxel, but split it into thin strips. Then in 3D Studio Max (or whatever) you could move those strips to show a sail filled with wind etc. This is the method used by Radiant for the game’s models: each human is in fact made up of lots of smaller separate voxel models all placed in the same file, and then animated.

However, having someone who can use 3DSM for the animation work would… well it’d be useful :stuck_out_tongue: . Off the top of my head, you’d want animations for the sails, cannons firing, cannonballs hitting, and huge (HUGE!) amounts of smoke. Maybe also a rocking ship animation and anchor-chain-dropping one too.

One more thing: the more expensive & rare an in-game object is, the more polygons you can throw at it, all things being equal. So to go back to your ship & my comments on frigates, you could in principle do a really detailed model & then scale it down in-game, because players won’t be seeing more than a handful of them on screen at once.

4. Ship Roles:
On the civilian side of things, we have transportation, fishing, whaling, and scouting. A fully equipped fishing schooner could probably keep your entire Stonehearth town fed (unless it’s really huge or something).

For the military, we have raiders, escorts and line of battle ships (plus transports I guess, but that can use repurposed civilian ships). As before, I don’t think anything much bigger than an age of sail frigate is feasible in the game (although I’d love to be wrong!), but if nothing else the sheer resource / manpower investment will make any kind of warship a rare thing.

5. Crew Sizes Etc:
If you want realism, you won’t be building (well, crewing) sailing vessels until you’ve got a few dozen civilians free (probably lots more). Upgrade several carpenters to shipwrights, harvest a metric f—ton of lumber, iron, food, cloth etc, and then when it’s finally built, make a whole load of regular workers into sailors, appoint one a captain, and send it off. Or you could just have one-man ships, because that way people might actually build several :stuck_out_tongue: .

Another thing to consider here is pathing requirements on the ship itself. Do you want sailors up in the rigging, or disappearing into the cabins & holds? Or do they just hang around on deck & reach into the nearest barrel for food when they’re hungry?

6. Ship Controls:
Sailing purists will be upset, but I think the best way to control ships is just good old point-and-click movement like most RTS games. It should be fairly trivial to order them to turn broadside-on to an enemy when fighting (or not). Waypoints and other commands like “return to docks” or “fish this (huge) area” and “drop anchor” will be useful too.

You certainly could go for a very advanced model, with wind speed, tacking and all that, but it seems needlessly complicated to me.

Finally, age of sail combat was very slow paced, which should suit Stonehearth fine. A British crew could fire a broadside every 2-3 minutes, whilst the French & Spanish took twice as long on average… it might take you 90 minutes to defeat an enemy age of sail warship, and even then it probably wouldn’t sink or explode or whatever unless completely outclassed (ships were often captured back then if they were worth repairing or re-using). Boarding actions and armed crewmen in the crow’s nests etc are also possible, although boarding actions sound like a pathfinding nightmare.

What else… some Classical ships had artillery mounted on them, but were generally either filled with archers, used to ram, or used to board enemy ships.

7. Enemies:
Well, we have ghost ships like the Flying Dutchman, pirates and the like (could be pirates/ninjas/politicians or orcs & goblins), and things like fish people & giant squids.

Whew, well I think that’s enough for now :smiley: . I’m more than happy to see my sailor model etc used in a mod like this. Here’s a link to the .qmo file:


#13

… i dont know what to say (epic wall of text)


#14

Thats what I was going for,

It was hard enough to get this right, I made a higher detail model last year and dear god was it awful.

I did that intentionally, As I said she is based off a ship from a book.

You know thats where the surprise is from right?

Your not counting the amount of wood you would need in the first place.

We could have it like that but make the ship faster or slower or take a different path depending on wind.


#15

apologies, I don’t recall… regardless, I really like the model! :+1:


#16

remember, I posted him in an execution pic and said something about speaking with my lawyer.


#17

Yeah, that’s why I said start with that one then stretch it. I copied the main hull of your model, made it bigger, and then quadrupled its dimensions. Add maybe 20mins of work and this is what I’ve done:

The fancy prow can then be built up from the rounded end I’ve done without too much bother. Happily of course, the design is also symmetrical, so copying & pasting works fine too (in fact, you could - and perhaps should - do a cut-away, then mirror it to rebuild it).


#18

Problem with that is it is way too small and would now be only a pink


#19

I created this when I was active before. I went for the curved sailing boat based on Polynesia boats and rafts.

and the sail is curved I know took me forever…

Hope it helps @newf
Scot
Yes it is really large and not blocky I know if you want to mess around with it pm me.


#20

That really gives a feeling of a swan boat from got the curved sail is perfect