When I read @Atralane 's post about Curators it got me thinking. If our stonehearth’s towns had a culture rate similar to that of Civilizations culture. By having things like Museums, Statues, Libraries, Schools, Music, Great Art etc. it would increase your culture rate. By having a higher culture it would increase the amount of people who would move into your settlement. It would also increase your citizens overall happiness.
Since all good things have negatives, the higher your culture gets, the more often attacks come. As well as a higher thief rate.
( @SteveAdamo or @Geoffers747 I looked around for any other posts similar to this and couldn’t find any. If there is feel free to merge them. )
So, a possible completely different category than general ‘Value’? I like the idea, though I’d need to think about how it would affect the game in a notably different manner to make it interesting (wealth would also likely draw new migrants and more attacks); maybe Culture also affects the rate at which research is completed, or possibly boosts units’ experience gain? The concept of ‘culture’ is tied fairly closely to how people tend to interpret and define society and infrastructure, so I could see this playing into how effective your settlement operates, rather than just how ‘wealthy’ your people are.
I like the idea of increased research rate being affected by culture. However “boosts units’ experience gain” doesn’t seem right to me. I was kind of thinking Culture wound’t be related to military and vice versa.
Actually, I was thinking more of the worker classes, like the builders and artisans. Military could benefit a little from Culture, but if so, it’d make sense to be far less of an impact than the civilian jobs. It would possibly fall under the concepts of country/state loyalty, social upbringing, etc., as an explanation.
The old Deadlock games had culture that affected how happy folks were, no culture gain to match population growth and folks just stopped working. it didn’t have any direct impact on military other then no folks to enlist into it or build units.
I like the concept of culture in a strategy/city-building game, but I’d like to see it work differently:
Worker-class:
Craftmanship of self products(Statues of your own God(s), nation-specific toys and crafts) is faster and is of better quality the higher the culture of your city becomes. In exchange, goods that could increase happiness or give other kind of bonuses that are from other nations would cost more to buy from a trader for example.
Soldier-class:
More culture would mean that other nations would recognize your flags and your weapons/armor sets. Think of it like when barbarians would see the organized, scary looking Roman army coming in, with the same looks and organized ranks that made the Romans so strong. High culture would give a small boost either to attack and defense or would make it so morale of the enemy would drop slightly faster. In exchange, diplomatic relations with new nations or new cities would be harder since they would feel threatened by your culture.
These are just general ideas, but I think there is potential to play around with cultures.
My definition of the word “culture” would be something like “The amount of influential art, music, and knowledge someone can produce.” Therefore according to my definition I do not agree with your above opinions.
This works quite well according to both of us.
I cannot see how being more knowledgeable, more artistic and creative would cause a higher foreign market price.
Again according to my interpretation and intention of “culture” this would not fit. For me culture and military would have almost nothing in common.
Perfect example of what I said above. I would thing “fear factor” on a battle field would come solely from battle appearance and previous military achievements.
All in all I see what you are saying, but that does not fit into how I intended “culture” It is more a second wealth then anything else. There are only two downsides to culture that I can think of. A higher thief rate, and the potential of a lower more elite population, but that could be seen as a pro as well.
It’s certainly interesting to make a note that culture includes knowledge yet doesn’t influence military might. I agree the military reputation would be built through military achievement but without qualifying what knowledge is specifically (I’d argue intellectual capacity and the ability to acquire and record discovery with knowledge), a well-learned society can have weapons and armor technology improvements as well as better formed battle tactics and techniques. I absolutely think knowledge influences military. It took knowledge and invention to take us from wooden clubs to automatic weapons as well as creative thought to devise history’s better battle tactics. The study of other people’s fighting systems through something like a museum could provide would also better technique.
Overall I would prefer the idea of cultural buildings over a plethora of specialized classes like curators or people keeping inventory/finances. Until the game supports over 100+ citizens anyway. Otherwise it’s just too easy to spread the workers too thin and not have enough for defenses or basic construction, etc, and be a mess to manage. I would however accept a sort of archivist job because if culture were implemented I think knowledge would have the most drastic effects across the board. What would be neat IMO is if this character could travel to other locations to gather information and inspiration. E.g. to use a military related example, observing and learning the art of forging with mithril from a foreign dwarf colony.
Sounds like an emphasis on mostly creative thought through the production of art. After all music and literature are forms of art as much as visual arts like sculpture and painting. I’d still argue it’s tied closely with knowledge but I see which aspect you want to emphasize… Seems to be more along the line of taste and aesthetics. The current ideas seem to involve a lot of numbers though in terms of statistical effects. What I’d love to see is the increased aesthetic sense reflected in something enjoyable to the player as well such as architecture, though that’d likely be such a pain to implement. Say the ability to craft tasteful fountains or balconies or whatever. And I absolutely think a class that takes influences from other nations/locations would be even more critical… Applied sciences are more similar around the world IMO than something like aesthetic sense. A school or museum would be able to spread that foreign aesthetic influence to other workers such as carpenters and maybe open up new styles of items.
@hirokitkichiro From your past post it looks like you are emphasizing the crafting abilities which could be unlocked by higher culture. Where that may be true my main point I am addressing in this post is having a culture rate, probably located near the name of your settlement. This rate would be connected with the speed at which your population increases, the frequency of traders, the frequency of thieves, and also would make you more “powerful” all around.
All other things would be extra. For example unlocking more aesthetics.
If my understanding is correct we aren’t arguing right now. I’m discussing culture as an alternate to ‘wealth’ and ‘military’ whereas you are talking about the bi-products of culture. Both of those can go hand in hand and work very well.
and @daisyj201 thanks for the compliment. I don’t know how good I am at modding I never tried it. Although I have done programming before so we shall see.
I would say for myself I’m not trying to argue, but rather, I’m interested in where this could go. I did mention that the current discussed points were statistical and involved numbers so I recognize what you’re getting at. These are very technical aspects that would integrate to the core of the game and give the city building more depth. I just felt like it should extend to something a more casual player might be able to enjoy too, as in someone less crazy about mechanics.
Having been involved with the art community myself, I think at least nowadays, culture gone too high just results in elitist views and bloated self esteem in fact I’d say nowadays it’s evolved to a point where technical excellence is downplayed (say, people paying millions to put an unworked stone in a museum vs a carefully crafted sculpture), and I wonder how that would affect efficiency. Thus I’d almost be tempted to say yes culture would improve efficiency but only to a point. But perhaps I’m being both too biased or too detailed.
I’m curious as to what you mean by power if culture is to be disconnected with military. Political sway perhaps? The increased ability to communicate and deal with other settlements? Since my impression with Stonehearth is that its most core element is city building I’m not too sure how detailed those systems would be… Perhaps I missed something. Though I do see factions in the developer roadmap. I’d assume a greater culture would allow more control as to how relationships develop with them due to increased understanding of how social relations work? Or possibly just draw the ire of a more militant or barbaric clan hence the increased thieves you mentioned.
I wonder if the concept of “culture” could somehow affect the different civilizations that will be eventually added to the game. Civilization specialties, either tech or aesthetic concepts?
I will point to the city of ancient Athens as my example. They had a decent military, although relatively it was downright weak compared to the city states around it. However since Athens was the center of science and art of the time it was respected and surprisingly not attacked often.
I hope that makes it clear.
Totally agree, just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.
Yeah you got a point there. However I don’t think that in Stonehearth that would be a major factor. Simply because it would be so hard to simulate.
It would definitely give a wider range of goals and also a wider range of specialties which could be ascribed to different civilizations,
To further add to this discussion and add to my previous post (which was only throwing ideas, by the way, I do see the problem with the logic between my ideas, but I feel like any upgrade should have a downgrade when it gives bonuses.)
If we go with culture as being purely artistic(AKA music, art and such), I would enjoy the idea of your town starting rather blend. Similar to the kind we have right now. When you choose a nation in the beginning, it would influence how your buildings would look, but only after you’ve acquired a certain amount of culture. Each time you reach a certain culture level, you’d unlock a new type of architecture structure. New walls, new columns, new windows, all according to the nation you picked. Former structures could also be upgraded at a cost or no cost. Those new architecture would have the same function as the original one, they would just look better.
Then again, those are only ideas I am throwing around.
Definitely a cool bi-product of culture which can be utilized.
Don’t fret and don’t feel bad, I wasn’t so clear in my starting post. Also culture would have a downgrade just I don’ t think it would be the ones you said.
I am hugely in favor of this sort of idea. I think there is an element of world building that can be found inside of stonehearth, and developing your small camp into a city with a unique culture is something that could be fundamental.
Establishing a culture via certain building choices, special items, artifacts, etc… should not only help make your settlement take on its own unique identity but actually have some practical influence on your citizens, abilities, etc…
I almost wonder if eventually other settlements in the world will also have their own “culture”, which affects what building designs they prefer and possibly minor differences in tech/units. This may be going a bit too far though, especially in this early state. We don’t even have trading yet officially.
in fact I’d say nowadays it’s evolved to a point where technical excellence is downplayed (say, people paying millions to put an unworked stone in a museum vs a carefully crafted sculpture), and I wonder how that would affect efficiency. Thus I’d almost be tempted to say yes culture would improve efficiency but only to a point. But perhaps I’m being both too biased or too detailed.