Need Feedback: Footmen Lv2 and Blacksmith

Hey everyone! Now that A15 is baked, and we’re looking towards A16, Team Stonehearth would like some feedback from you all!

  • How long, in a normal game for you, does it take to get a 2nd level footman? What is your town’s size, class makeup, and net worth at this point? What monsters do you find challenging at this point?
  • How long, in a normal game, does it take to get an apprentice blacksmith? Again, what is your town’s size, class makeup, and net worth at this point? What monsters do you find challenging at this point?
  • If you wanted to optimize both processes (ie, blitz straight to footman lv 2 and apprentice blacksmith) how would you do it? What would your town size be at this point?

We theorize our own answers to these questions, but we want to sanity check them against yours. Let us know! It will probably be relevant soon. :wink:


@sdee, just want to clarify. By 2nd level footman, do you mean lvl 2, or lvl 1 (second level when counting from 0)?


Process Blacksmith:

  1. Pick ascendancy.
  2. Throw the dice until you receive two hearthlings with 6 mind.
  3. Settle near a mountain, there are usually also a lot of trees around.
  4. Promote one 6 mind hearthling to a carpenter and let him craft beds.
  5. Cut a few trees and then begin to mine the mountains.
  6. Carpenter will be level 1 at about 60% of the daytime left. Craft a mason’s hammer.
  7. Promote the other 6 mind hearthling to mason and let him craft random stuff to level up.
  8. Optionally promote a hearthling to farmer and place a few crops.
  9. Mason becomes level 3 on second day, with about 35% daytime left. Craft a blacksmith’s hammer.
  10. Promote a hearthling to blacksmith at about 5:30 PM on the second day.

3 Workers
1 Carpenter
1 Mason
1 Blacksmith
1 Farmer
No buildings.

Process Footman:

  1. Promote a hearthling to footman.
  2. Get bored because there is no attack on the first two days.

With the blasksmith rush I can get to at least bronze equipment before even seeing an enemy.


Unfortunately in my experience so far-

2 Days to get a lvl 2 footman I have been getting 2-3 encounters since day 2 with usually 3-5 mobs per encounter. Settlement size was pretty much just starting. I didn’t even have a full stockpile 10x10 full yet.

Couldn’t tell you about the blacksmith my village only lasted till day 9 before it crashed… My fault for the crash, I was putting the building mechanic through it paces and gave it a migraine. :stuck_out_tongue:

I will be starting a new game soon I hope the story teller just had a bad day and was expressing it’s frustrations on me that time :slight_smile:

It wasn’t overly tough as far as the mobs go but it might need a tweak or 2 to have it give a forced breather after so many encounters so soon into the game. :peace:

Ascendancy btw…

Edit: I guess It must be a fluke about getting mobs at day 2 from what I am seeing some posting… Time to verify the file integrity i guess.


to be honest, it doesnt take me very long to get to lvl 2 footman and i hold BS till i see mobs getting tough

So my process is this:

establish new town
Make 1 footman, farmer, carp
plant 2 crops of 11x11
Build first build
Have carp just grind to get mason hammer
Get villager
—By this time my footman are lvl 2—
Make another footman
Build second Build(useally wall off area)
Make mason
Get villagers (12 is the most i got for early game)
Make BS (grind him to full lvls)
Just build till mob get tough
Just let my footman take care of things
Mob get kinda tough, make gear to comp
Make a 3rd footman

By the way Refuse the Boneaxe the whole time lol, unless i get from cheiftain


Across 4-5 games, it usually takes a few days to get a footman to level two, though once the enemies start actually spawning in then it’s straightforward.

As for a blacksmith, I typically take a week or so to get them at all. Especially the way things are balanced now, having them slave away for a few days/a week to be able to make the best armor and stuff is certainly the “endgame” for me.

In a typical game, I’ll end up with 2 farmers, 2 workers, 1 carpenter, 1 trapper and 1 footman initially.

Currently, in my most stable and progressed game (24 hearthlings), I have one of each crafter (blacksmith herbalist tailor mason cook), 3 farmers, 5 footmen (because why not), 2 shepherds,1 trapper and 7 workers. The biggest bad I have now is the inventory boss, and one of the aforementioned (in another thread) inventory bug with people not collecting anything unless they’re prompted.


It depends on the map and my starting position.

I have a hand-picked, carefully pruned starting seed world I’ve been choosing, and I always start in areas that are inaccessible or semi-inaccessible, I pretty much know exactly where I’m going to dig, etc.

Because of that I’m able to beeline to blacksmith pretty quickly, and I can also put off getting a footman for a long time.

So, looking at my most recent set of saves, in that scenario, looking over old saves, it looks like I had a blacksmith at the beginning of Day 3 – essentially as soon as I started digging – but didn’t bother with a footman until Day 7. By Day 10 my blacksmith was working on steel gear, so there were only a few short days where he was in bronze or iron (I never bothered with iron armor at all).

Day 3 blacksmith setup is carpenter, farmer, mason, trapper, 3 workers.
Day 7 footman is blacksmith, carpenter, farmer, mason, trapper, 3 workers, soldier.

I think that whole calculation probably changes if enemies have ranged attacks and I can’t just be 100% safe by climbing halfway up a cliff face and huddling my dudes in a blob at the top of the ladder.

That said, the big hurdle with the blacksmith generally isn’t just having the blacksmith; it’s moving beyond bronze gear into iron and steel. This is entirely dependent on whether there are convenient veins in the locations you want to dig and/or there’s an early Rufus Garrow you can buy a load of copper/tin from to make that first blacksmith’s hammer and get rolling.

The other consideration is that once you do have a footman armored up in top-end gear they trivialize absolutely everything. That’s probably just as well given the rudimentary nature of the combat right now but as far as I can tell a single footman with platemail/shield/helm/two-hander can obliterate an infinite number of everything in this game, up to and including necromancers, goblin armies, etc.

Net result is that right now the combat isn’t really that challenging at all either way. The first few days, your hearthlings can handle everything that might happen just by blobbing up; after that, your footman is very quickly in the top end gear and everything is trivial.


I just did a quick game to see how long it takes me.

Footman level 1 on the morning of the 3rd day, first encounter.
apprentice blacksmith middle of 3rd day.
Footman level 2 night of the 3rd day on second encounter.

total net worth was 1378 town size 8


edited: was able to fore go initial farmers due to abundant berries in the area.


Hey there @Aethrios, welcome to the Discourse!


My steps are usually as follows
Day one

  1. Roll random hearthlings till I give up and trying for the perfect group.
  2. Start game and promote a carpenter and Trapper immediately(I know, don’t judge me)
  3. Level a forest much to the dismay of the Entlings that will be visiting on day 3 severely upset about this step.
  4. Tell my carpenter to make everything.
  5. Promote a farmer and make them plant everything.
  6. Place beds to keep people from whining about caveman style sleeping
  7. Start carving out a gigantic hole in a mountain to build up stone and ore(see step 3 about visitors that aren’t happy about this later on)
    Day 2, this day is less hectic
  8. Should have gotten a hearthling then immediately promote a mason and start making everything I can to lvl up so I can make the blacksmiths hammer
  9. Keep an eye on net worth to make sure I’m making enough to get over the 1100 mark for next day’s update
  10. About mid way through the night I promote a footman then he equips the hammer and shield and proceeds to hang out by the farms cause apparently that’s where all the action is(really dislike this)
    Day 3 (the Ents are going to war!)
    after the update I promote a blacksmith and then it literally takes no time for them to get to lvl 2. Especially the footman. Once this is done then it’s just a chaotic mess of trying to convince settlers that we aren’t bad people despite what Meryl Berylhands would like you to believe

Hey there @Fitzik, welcome to the Discourse!

Who knew a question about footmen and blacksmith would get so many new users to sign up and respond…


Thank you! I’ve been playing in the alpha for a while (since 10, I believe?) but just jumped back in with the last major round of changes and performance increases.


Rayya’s Children Blacksmith Rush

Day 1

  • Starting with multiple “6 mind” hearthlings
  • Bought the Trapper’s Knife for extra challenge
  • Potter reaches lvl 2 by 8 PM, crafts Mason’s Chisel
    At this point the composition is: 1 Mason, 1 Trapper, 5 Workers
  • Workers constantly work to erase nearby mountain
  • Mason is set to craft Bird Baths

Day 2

  • 8 AM, no new Hearthling
  • 9 AM, Mason is level 2, starting to craft Wall-Mounted Stone Lanterns for more exp
  • 11 AM, first trader arrives. No wooden sword, sold some bird bath and lanterns.
    (Why is Bird Bath more expensive than the lantern?)
  • 9 PM, Mason is level 3, crafts Blacksmith’s Hammer
    At this point the composition is: 1 Blacksmith, 1 Trapper, 5 Workers (demoted the mason)
  • Blacksmith starts crafting ingots by 10 PM

Day 3

  • 8 AM, new hearthling arrives, now I have 6 workers
  • 8 AM, trader arrives, still doesn’t sell wooden sword
  • 11 AM, lack of wood slows progress (whoops)
  • 2 PM, first enemies appear, and I still have no footman - Town Defense mode, Hearthlings wipe the mini golems with ease
  • 11 PM, blacksmith is now level 3

Day 4

  • 8 AM, no new hearthling
  • 8 AM, trader arrives, bought a Wooden Sword
  • First Footman starts business, with a bronze helmet thingy and an iron mace thanks to Mr. Blacksmith
    Composition: 1 Blacksmith, 1 Trapper, 1 Footman, 5 Workers
  • Footman defeats some enemies, still apprentice
    (Since when do footmen need 700+ exp for level 1? :confused:)

Day 5

  • Nothing happens. Not even enemies.

Day 6

  • 3 AM, Footman turns level 1!
  • I got bored, so this is where it ends.

Hearthlings with a high mind level quicker and they need more experience when they have levels in other professions. So when trying to rush something, use hearthlings with high mind for crafters and don’t “reuse” them by for example promoting the carpenter to mason, because he will level slower than a blank hearthling without levels in any profession.


Due to this I always end up playing several days to get enough food and net worth and then waiting further for new Hearthlings until I have another one with a decent mind stat. In fact, I think leveling’s quicker for a low mind worker than for a 6 mind skilled craftsman, which seems… a bit backwards. I get that Radiant doesn’t want people trying to give all the jobs to all their Hearthlings to get all the bonuses. Still, it would be nice if there was an actual choice rather than just punishment for upgrading Hearthlings leveled from another job.

This also makes it very hard for, say, shepherds and cooks to level, because I tend to pick trappers and farmers based on their body stat rather than mind and I generally don’t upgrade them as soon as possible. So not only do they naturally level slower, they level even slower due to the levels they need and the extra ones I’ve let them get before promoting them.

… I’ll talk about the balance issue this topic is supposed to be about soon. :blush:


Process Blacksmith:

Day 1: I always start with the ascendancy and the first thing i do is harvest some trees and promote an hearthling to a carpenter. With that carpenter i make some beds, tables and chairs. Then i make a farmer and plant like 8 crops (5x8 usually). When i have some time left i start with a bit of mining / building.
Day 2: Whenever i have enough stone i’m going to make a mason hammer and let him make some walls to gain some experience. After that, i order him to make like 20 stone chests for later usage and to level him up. When i have time left, i make another building / harvest a bit.
Day 3: This is the day i promote 1 hearthling to a footman, because this is the day the first enemies will arrive.
Day 4 / 5: By this time my footman will be level 2 and i use him to haul some stuff (turn of the job function).

Whenever i have like 12 hearthlings and some copper + tin ores i will make a second footman and start to tech-up towards a Blacksmith. This will be around day 10, in my opinion… you don’t need him in the early game, because you can handle the mobs without the coppper / iron gear when you got 2 footmans + shields + town defence mode.

With my current save game i have:
4 footman (fully equipped)
2 farmers
1 shepherd
1 cook
1 mason
1 carpenter
1 blacksmith
1 herbalist
1 weaver
7 workers


Playing relaxed, taking my time.

Level 2 Footman at Day 5
Net Worth 1250

9 Hearthlings

1 Carpenter
1 Trapper
1 Footman
6 Workers

Blacksmith Came day 12


Just timed it 10 minutes and 11 seconds to get an apprentice blacksmith,
The time in game is 1:09pm on the second day.
1 blacksmith
1 mason
1 carpenter
1 farmer
1 trapper
3 workers
net worth around 900

The same game:
45 minutes 57 seconds to get footman level 2
Time in game 9:33pm of day 7

1 blacksmith (lvl 5)
1 mason
1 carpenter
2 farmers
2 footman (one lvl 2 with steel short sword)
1 trapper
1 weaver
2 workers

net worth 2747
Edibles 745

None of the monsters in the game are ever hard to beat.

Had another go and got an apprentice black smith by 6:19 am on the second day :stuck_out_tongue:


Oh, and more general feedback on the combat:

There’s very little reason to really build defensive fortifications right now, largely because by the time you have the spare man power to do it, you’re already at the point where one footman can wipe out all threats (plus, up until very recently there was a dcent chance enemies would spawn inside your walls anyway).

That said the game would really, really benefit from a more interesting and challenging set of combat and development mechanics. I’d suggest a few things:

  1. Make it slightly easier to get hearthlings. Right now it’s actually pretty difficult to get a hearthling at the start of day 2. The way the threshold/difficulty curve works out, you sortof struggle to get your first ten hearthlings, then after that your fortress starts really producing and you gain a hearthling every day until you hit your cap. I’d suggest making the first part of the curve easier to hit and the latter part more difficult, so that it’s relatively easy to get your first ten, but gaining a hearthling a day after that isnt’ guaranteed.

  2. Make enemies a little more damaging so there’s a real risk of hearthling soldier death. (This may need to wait on the new classes and perhaps a “formation” tool for your parties). Idea being that you get more hearthlings but if you aren’t careful you lose more, too.

  3. Revise early structures so it’s easier to get a basic defensive system in place. Making fences build as buildings / walls, requiring very little stone or wood, rather than made by the carpenter and masons and placed individually would be a big step here. So would including a few pre-designed wooden palisades (perhaps even with sharpened-log wall tops?).

  4. Again, this may be for down the road, but “turtling” needs to be a valid strategy, because otherwise the death of your soldiers will mean the death of your fort. It sortof is now just because enemies can’t break through doors (I don’t think?) but it’d be a big help to have things like drawbridges, placeable traps, etc. This may need to wait on the Engineer class but it’d add a great deal of depth to the gameplay.


I put off a blacksmith for a while in my last game, because once I started getting Crypt spawns, every Crypt started dropping 2x Longswords and 2x Bronze Plate or Full Plate. After getting those, my 2 Footmen were basically immortal (one of them literally walked into the Goblin camp and wiped them all out, only taking a quarter-heart of damage).