Low enemy courage doesn't make much sense and gets annoying

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#1

When you defeat ogo, Orcs start to appear. And I really wonder why those guys run away when you scratch them with a knight sword. I think for Goblin it is ok. But Orcs are creatures with the biggest courage probably and should fight until they win or drop dead. I do understand that archers and healers run away when you go for them, but warriors shouldn’t.

Also it would be cool if the taunt from knights interrupt enemies from fleeing. I had it sometimes that my knights and footmen were chasing for an archer, no matter if it made sense or not. Ofc I ordered them to go for another target, but then this target also starts to run away and then the fight gets really annoying. My knights at least tank some damage, but my footmen were pretty useless. They take alot of damage and cant deal any because they constantly have to chase enemies. My archers had to do all the damage.

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#2

Um…

If at least some of your archers aren’t using “spikey arrows” (to slow down fleeing enemies so that footman can keep up), you’re doing it wrong. :wink:

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#3

Ofc I use them. But my knights/footmen still have to waste alot of time to chase enemies. And it’s still unlogical that orc warriors run away after the first hit you do to them x)

#4

My warriors are fearsome. Makes sense to me that they all should run in fear and cringe at the sight of my army. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I think it adds a dynamic tactical feature to combat. As that fleeing orc can disrupt you formation by drawing away Soldiers exposing your archers and clerics to enemy archers and Footman. This does require you to manage your Soldiers more by Focus targeting specific enemies and determining the best kill order.

(I say this light heartedly)
I agree, It can be aggravating when they don’t all line up to be killed in a proper manner but this is War! and crazy things happen.

#5

The question is: Does Radiant want that kind of micromanagement? Because of the extremely low courage, you have to reposition your archers and clerics quite often and I didn’t think that stonehearth focus will be combat micromanagement.

And like I said: Orcs are quite fearless in every fantasy game and rather fight to death instead of fleeing from battle. They would probably not even use it as a tactic. At least the tanky warriors shouldn’t run away after the first hit. Maybe when they drop below 25% oder 50% health but not higher then that.

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#6

I think every aspect of the game could use a little micro. Combat especially, but I feel we should have a bit better tools for managing those things. Like combat, we should atleast have stances for our clerics and archers so they are easier to manage when it comes to large scale combat. Clerics running into the melee line only to get cleaved by enemies and run about like fearful idiots instead of chillin in the back line and healing with the archers who are dealing damage.

Also managing the targets is pretty fun too, applying pressure to enemies who retreat and such is very awesome. I do believe that the game could use options for people who would love to set it and forget it.

As far as first hit fear, I’ve never experienced that on Orc/Ogres, only on Kobold Archers. Made me salty because the extra fearing made them inadvertently kite my melee. Spiked arrows put an end to that though.

Edit: That being said, I wonder if there are mods out there for that o:

#7

I am not really concerned with how much or how less micromanagement Radiant wants. Its how much do I want, I am the one that plays the game after all (Love all yall at Radiant) :grin: But as @DevolantTwitch is saying I want a certain amount of management involved in each aspect of the game. I know in the earlier alphas once you had 4 or 5 Soldiers you could pretty much just drop your combat banner and then go back to building or whatever (Set it and forget it as DevolantTwitch said). I play the Hard Mode because I want a challenge so I expect combat to take part of my attention away from building/crafting/mining.

Well this is where StoneHearth breaks the mold, and forges a new path of Fantasy. No more stereotypes, no more safe and familiar, this is new ground that is being broken. Orcs that are more than cardboard punch-out they have loves and FEARS (Especially fear of my Soldiers). Old tactics must be thrown to the wayside, a new breed of foe has taken the battlefield. This is not for the faint of heart or armchair general. This is the time to take up arms and destroy the orc beasts or the orc artisan that was forced to the front line but would have rather planted a garden.

So when an Orc breaks and flee it makes perfect sense to me and I will use it to my advantage. run little orc run.

#8

I still think that running orcs do not make sense and that it kinda ruins the atmosphere. The early goblins are perfect for such behavior and it’s also good for the start, since goblins come in small groups and are usually agile but also fragile creatures who have low stamina and fighting morale. Lorewise, it also would make sense that Orcs are more fearlesss. When you defeat Ogo, the new Khan comes, telling you about a “new challange” and that always someone stronger exists and comes for you after defeating the last enemy.

So then this new Khan brags about how strong he is and that the player is not yet ready for this challange and then he sends his fearless lower rank orcs who then run away after getting a little scratch. Just imagine Lord of the Rings and the battle where the 10,000 Orcs tried to take over Black Gate. They are running to the castle, then the first arrow hits the first orc and all the orcs turn back and run away in fear… The Khan must have stronger units with higher courage, otherwise the whole lore doesn’t make sense.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not against units that flee at the first sign of danger. Like I said, the goblins are perfect for such behavior lorewise and there could be many other creatures in the future who show such behavior. But please not orcs… If they wanted to break the stereotypes, then they shouldn’t have used goblins as the first “intelligent” but weakest of all enemy units (and stereotypically enough they try to steal from you). And they shouldn’t have introduced a Khan that talks about strength and honor in battle and the next big challange etc. It just doesn’t make any sense right now and feels just wrong. Even my clerics and archers with 1 wisdom, who die from 3-5 arrow hits, have more courage then the orc warriors… lol

#9

I do not want to detract from your vision of what Orcs should be. I understand the visions that was portrayed on the Silver Screen in the film Lord of the Rings. But I do want to remind you in that in the Hobbit series you witness the sniveling Orc who was told it was better off not returning, moment before being fed to the worgs.

I remember back in the 70’s when Orcs were found guarding small chest in 10x10 rooms, vicious but not completely mindless. The Orcs are being driven by fear by their overlords knowing that failure to comply is death. The same Orcs know what death is and fear it.

Another thing to remember is that the Khan has died, these are the Orcs that have been living off the fat for sometime now. Now the Generals are squabbling for power and throwing their forces around to gather Honor to claim the title. So all levels of Orc society have been put to the whip so to speak to gain glory for their master. These first waves of Orcs are the dregs send off to far away lands looking for easy conquest against brand new settlements like ours. I image the core of the blood thirsty Orcs are mustering to lay siege to the Homeland to bring down our Princess. Her head would bring untold glory to the victorious Orc General seeking the throne of the Khan.

I will wait for the unflinching blood crazed Orcs to arrive once 100 population are sustainable and the glorious city that I build rivals any found in the homeland. Then I will instill fear once again as I send my Army of Iron, Steel and Magic to wipe out the Orc generals and seize the Throne of the Khan for Myself…err the Good of my Hearthlings.

#10

I hadn’t touched hard mode yet, I did one time. Then I promptly died. Story mode has a certain level of difficulty while still allowing me to play around a bit :smile: But I definitely need to try hard mode. Does it change the way the AI on the monsters work or is it just stronger waves much sooner and much more frequent @Geokhan?

#11

Stronger waves and enemies have more health, defense and deal more damage to you. But AI is pretty much the same as far as I know.

#12

It does not change the AI. Like you surmised the enemy start showing up a day sooner so you don’t have as long as a grace period to get started. As @AaronD said [quote=“AaronD, post:11, topic:23532”]
Stronger waves and enemies have more health, defense and deal more damage to you.
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