Feedback on the Building Tool

If we go from the expectation that dirt will be worth basically nothing, then deconstructing a building would just need to incorporate your workers filling the hole with dirt after they deconstructed the building

I think the destroying and creation of matter - even dirt - on a whim could be bad. What if I want to use the dirt thatā€™s been dug out for a floor for landscaping? But if I could create dirt for free, then Iā€™m going to build dirt city walls instead of having to actually harvest wood.

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If you used the dirt you dug up by building the building for something different before destroying the building then you will end up with a whole in the ground. Itā€™s your own fault for using the dirt for something else.

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I posted this in a other topic but then stumbled upon this oneā€¦ Where it suited much better I think, so here it is.

Now that I have tried the game, I have some remarks to make about the building tool. I just got the beta so my opinions are sort of first impressions. Look at them as fresh and a slip of the tong.

At the very first beginning I was impressed by the building tool Stoneheart is using, simple and quick to use. But after using it several times it didnā€™t feel quiet good anymore, and I wondered whyā€¦ And after a while it occurred to me what the problem might be.

  1. The thing is it tells me what to do, and in witch order. First; floor Second; walls, Third; roof, Fourth; doodles
  2. It kind of automatically does it for me (one click, all walls at once, one click one wall is enough).
  3. And I canā€™t change my building once its approved to be build.

All in all it does not give me that sand boxy feeling, witch Stoneheart pretends to be.

I am hoping for a more loose building tool, witch gives you more freedom. Donā€™t get me wrong I like it the way it is now and I know they will ad even more options. And for a lot of people this is the the way they practically gone use it, and that also fine.

But what I am hoping for is more freedom. Who sayā€™s I need floors, they give a house more comfort (so + bonus for sleep or something) but its your choice. Just let me build a little section of the floor, approve, and then let my builders start building. Let me build a bit of a wall on a other still not finished building, let me put in another window in a ā€œalready finishedā€ house, make it a two blocks window or what ever. Let me brake down a wall or roof to change it the way I want !!

I love this game and I am sure the building system will workout fine. Iā€™ve played another citybuilder game kind off like this, in there you can build stone by stone or if you preferred wall by wall. It felt so free and seeing my builders build my (own) design block by block looked so appealing so adorable. It gave me a sandbox feeling. Although I have to say, the system in Stone Heart is much quicker and easier to use but feels more preset.

Please give me total freedom !! :sunny:

ps. sorry for my English, I am from Holland. :blush:

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Kavā€™s suggestions are pretty comprehensive. I was wondering if it would be possible to have things work backwards, as in laying down the walls then the floors could work like a fill tool, but I suppose that would be problematic for open-type buildings (which indeed are a hassle to create as of now). Perhaps something like selecting wall height would be nice too, down the road for something like creating a tall cathedral, or even towers so you could just set a high wall height as opposed to stacking several builds. That would especially come in handy as the villagers should be able to scaffold for themselves. Then I suppose being able to build floors out of the side of the wall would enable new storeys in the building, or stuff like porches out the side of a building, overhangs, small bridges, etc.

Obviously thereā€™s some AI issues with villagers not wanting to complete buildings but I think thatā€™s just a problem with execution that would be ironed out in time.

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Any Minecraft players remember having to look up circle charts or generators? It would be nice for all the towers Iā€™ve seen lately if dragging a circle in game was possible.

Well, although these so-called ā€œcirclesā€ are a tad blasphemous to Stonehearthā€™s cube-based perfection, I assume there might be an option for it in future versions of the builder. We know thereā€™s going to be savable templates coming soon, so in the meantime you can at least save different diameters of floor/stencils and build structures off of them.

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i like the change from the way that the buildings were made before, the templates are a better change than just trying to figure out how to make a house or a building and all the little pieces you can put on or in it. i love the customize-able houses/buildings you can make with it. the tool/UI/building utility is bugged, i put in 3 template small houses and tried to create a large warehouse for my stockpile and couldnt finish all of the building and left it alone for a min to come back to it and got a error box. now i cant delete it or any peice of it or any of the smaller houses. i would upload the image but new users cant. maybe later or i can send it to a developer directly
the error is ;

radiant/lib/env.luac:3: assertion failed!
C++ exception: lua runtime error

over and over, i hope this helps the development i love this game and the idea (hope this is the right spot for this)

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Just been playing around in the latest dev branch (Alpha 8).

The tool feels like a good basic tool so far. It makes it easy to get some basic buildings thrown up.

In the short term it needs a few things:

  1. you need to be able to add lamps, beds, chairs, and other furniture at the ā€œplanningā€ stage, all at one go, so you can then save a template with everything. Itā€™d also be nice if you could click a finished, furnished building and save that as a permanent template with all the beds and lamps etc. If thereā€™s a way to do this I didnā€™t find it.

  2. Similarly, you shouldnā€™t have to have all your windows, doors, etc. built yet in order to add them to your plan and have your workers start work.

  3. It can be a little tricky to get stuff placed exactly right, even in 3d. The floor grid helps but maybe a 3d grid would be a helpful option.

  4. Need more default building templates and they need to be further optimized (and symmetrical! Why are the default buildings asymmetric?)

  5. I agree very much that being able to draw circle shaped floors would be a really, really positive option. Triangles would be good too. Right now itā€™s all rectangles and while the tool is conceptually very powerful I suspect itā€™s going to mostly end in a lot of little square huts.

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Iā€™m sure the multi-story tools that weā€™ll see later will be much more powerful, but you know what would be really helpful right now? The ability to stop Hearthlings from taking down scaffolding until later. That way, I could just keep going up instead of having to place tons of ladders manually. Also/Instead, it would be nice to have a manual scaffolding tool. I think dragging out scaffolding would be less annoying than placing individual ladders.

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I think Ladders and Scaffolding should be ā€˜hack toolsā€™ that every hearthling should get, no materials required. Have them go and retrieve the actual building blocks (to build walls/roofs/floors etc,.) but yeah Ladders and scaffolding should be auto tools, unless you actually command them to place them, then they should grab a log from the stock pile. If they auto place a ladder they should also auto retrieve them afterwards (so as to not litter the game world :slight_smile: ).

Benefits:
Stuck on the roof? auto build ladder to get down (retrieving it once task is accomplished)
Stuck in a pit? auto build ladder to get out (same with retrieve deal)
Time saver also (1 less time to the stock pile).
-Or-
If you donā€™t want the ā€˜Hackā€™ option, then have the Hearthlings auto grab 1-2 logs to keep on hand for emergencies (for all the above reasons) which would require them to maybe cut down more trees.

Would probably wipe out a few bugs also - Had issues with mining? not anymore if they built a ladder to reach that one lonely block that is stopping them from progressing and freaking out the AI. All your Hearthling are trapped in a pit with no help around? problem solved. Have a complex build that requires ladder upon ladder to achieve? bam! itā€™s streamlined building no more babysitting it and adding ladder section after section.

This wouldnā€™t stop from needing to manually place ladders either In some instances: like making a semi-permanent ladder to access a mining area placing a ladder 1 time would be time effective instead of having them build/tear down every time.Just make the manually placed ladders take priority over the emergency option. -My 2cent suggestion-

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Itā€™s also possible Hearthlings could be equipped in the future with a Rope or Grapple, as well as being able to jump up to certain ledges or jumping down. A Rope might make more sense than a ladder, as itā€™s much easier to carry. Perhaps certain ā€œexploratoryā€-oriented classes (weā€™ve seen mention of a Treasure Hunter class of sorts) can use more advanced versions of it, allowing them to traverse larger distances or even cross horizontal spaces, like a canyon (by shimmying across the rope).

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My little suggestion itā€™s that I need a way to Erase/delete/modify existing building templates in the building editor. I get a ton of errors just because i canā€™t delete a building template that i designed in the early alphas, and with all th new materials and such, it just doesnā€™t work anymore.

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Sorry, bringing back another feedback topic from the dead. Just started playing the new update, and I noticed something very different than normal (among many other things)ā€“thereā€™s no scaffolding outline for stand-alone walls!

Overall, this is a very small thing, but for all the projects Iā€™ve been doing the past few months, knowing what side the game will default the scaffolding is actually pretty important! It helps prevent the ā€œred conflicting structuresā€ issue (which may or may not still affect the gameā€™s functioning), but more importantly: it lets you know what side of the wall will turn invisible for the ā€œinternal structure viewā€ mode!

Since I still hope on mixing both types of walls (stand-alone and the auto-build ones), being able to at least choose which side they place the scaffolding on (and hopefully choosing which side of the wall is the ā€œouterā€ one for view modes) would be incredibly helpful and useful for large builds and towns with lots of walls.

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Completely forgot this was a stickied threadā€¦ Discourse is so wierd to useā€¦

Made a big post about the new building tool in another thread, so Ill just link it here for perusal.

I think for the most part the building tool works fine, but the building AI doesnā€™t quite so much.
For the actual tool though, the biggest thing I think is being able to take more control over some of the automatic stuff, like walls and roofs

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I agree with the idea to have more control over automatic stuff like walls and roofs.

Also Scaffolding/building length/something else should be modified so that Hearthlings could build things under the roof like here

:

Also it would make underground building easier where the roof is making building difficult because you cannot reach the top 2 layers like here

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If you try and build two building within one square of each other, the scaffolding will become inaccessible during the building process.

To fix the issue, I had to build a ladder inside the building so the workers could keep going.

Iā€™m not entirely sure this is a bug, but its kind of a grievance.

Thanks!

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I tried to build a basilica -styled curch an when i was placing the middle roof the walls jumped to the sky : DDD

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I was just throwing this out there. but i think it would be better if the foundation/floor of the buildings went under where the walls are so that its more flush and you dont have to build path in the doorways of the homes to remove the grass color. also so that the house isnt built up inside of the walls. another thing i was thinking about was being able to build multi-room structures with walls and doors on the interior. i tried this before on a previous version and the game didnt know what to think of it and could not accomplish the task.