Do Team StoneHearth have any incentive to move out of alpha?

Plushies, we need Hearthling and Varanus Plushies

Edit: really though, imagin hugging a varanus Plushie! Sooooo Adorable!


Shhh you’re ruining the point, but I would totally buy a hearthling plushie


But seriously! Stonehearth has been the first and only game I’ve ever backed on Kickstarter, and I’ve loved every step of it! Heck, the main thing I love isn’t even the game, but in fact the community! Seeing all these lovely people, and keeping in close contact with the developers is super cool!


And the redheads and the goggles. Can’t forget those.


I do believe they took this route so that we would have a semi stable game that we could play to our hearts content while they worked on the code intensive projects like the final 6 classes, the final 2 races, and the liquid mechanics (i,e, water and lava).

Yes and no. Yes Alpha is where you usually put all the features in, but in order to do that in a productive way that doesn’t create an unplayable game you have to fix the bugs as you go. Beta testing is usually the final fine tuning and making sure that the multiplayer servers have enough power to keep up. This game differs from most others in that instead of the devs completing 90% of Alpha before opening the game to the public they gave the public the game at the 5% mark and we are only now reaching close to the 65% mark if I have been following everything right. Part of this is because the community is adding to the original list and part of it is because it just takes that long to integrate several million lines of code in such a manner that the game isn’t insta-crashing.

1 year ago, you would have been hard pressed to run a game with more than 9 Hearthlings at a time. Now I am playing games with 16-23 Hearthlings with no problems except the occasional failed pathing. That means that in 1 years time they have doubled the performance of the game and they have tripled the game content in that same time so that is a very impressive feat.

You keep comparing the development of this game to other games that are not in this style. If you want to compare this development with another game to get a good picture you have to look at Minecraft as their development style is about the same. The only difference I can find between the two is that Minecraft had a short Alpha (17 months if I remember right), but a really long beta (almost 7 years) and with all the stuff they are still adding there you could almost claim it is still in a beta phase. Games like this that involve large open maps and multiple complex activities (building, foraging, fighting, social dynamics) take on average 7-10 years of development (from what I have seen in my beta/alpha testing) and we are just finishing year 3 so we still have a ways to go probably at least another 2 years before beta and then another year or 2 before full release.


I am? I haven’t compared it to any games (in this thread at least).

But since you compare it to Minecraft (which has basically NO AI) I’ll make a (what I think) better comparsion.

Look at Gnomoria, Was Announced April 2012, Done by one guy.
It matches up to Stonehearth pretty well except for the 3D graphics.
Released 1.0 February 2016, 4 years later.
But it was basically “done” 6-9 months prior to that.

What sets these games apart is that Stonehearth has focused a massive amount of time on getting buildings up and running (and that isn’t done yet) but there isn’t much of a game there yet.

It’s basically a Lego-build-my-town game right now, much like Minecraft.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m hoping for a release as much as the next guy, but in the 4 years this has been in development it seems like the game I Kickstarted is nowhere to be found.

The team used to throw features together quickly and see how they turned out, but once they started trying to add mid-game stuff like combat they’ve been keeping up save compatibility so people can actually get to that stage. Soon after, there was a major optimization push so towns could get bigger. Then a combat update, a building update with the engineer, another optimization update, and an upgrade to Rayya’s Children.

For the game to be playable I imagine we’ll keep seeing some building and optimization updates again every once in a while. Alpha 20, though, looks like it’ll bring some entirely new systems into play even if the morale rework is a bit of a rework. I’m guessing we’ll see entirely new stuff an update or two afterwards.

And of course this is a bit of slow time for development because they probably don’t want to start publicly releasing an update right before they leave for the holidays, or while Frostfeast is working perfectly on Alpha 19.


F[quote=“GeyserGod, post:25, topic:26963, full:true”]
Games like this that involve large open maps and multiple complex activities (building, foraging, fighting, social dynamics) take on average 7-10 years of development (from what I have seen in my beta/alpha testing) and we are just finishing year 3 so we still have a ways to go probably at least another 2 years before beta and then another year or 2 before full release.

Really, then how would you describe the estimated delivery date of December 2013 on the KickStarter? Dishonest, incompetent or cynical?

Can I also point you in the direction of ‘Banished’ that seems to have achieved pretty much what StoneHearth is trying to do in a development period of three years.

Related quotation by Tom from Reddit:

"Hi! We’re still around! I’ve taken on somewhat of a different role since the Riot acquisition, helping support the team through hiring and managing the studio. As old-timers know, I was responsible for most of the art in the game. Now Allie and Malley are doing a great job on that front, so I’m more focused on how we can continue to move the project forward.

A big part of that has been augmenting the team with skills that we’ve been lacking. So since spring we’ve hired an animator, an actual game designer (!!!), a UX designer, and an engineer. We’ve also made an offer to Morgan, Destroyer of Worlds, (last summer’s intern). She has accepted and will be joining the team mid next year! We continue to actively hire, especially for more engineers to help pick up the pace of development.

At this point, I will acknowledge the obvious, which is that this has been a far more challenging project that we anticipated. But our commitment remains strong. Thanks for everyone for hanging in there and supporting us along the way."


Ty for finding that :slight_smile:

Weird as to why He wouldn’t post that on their own forum though…(shrug)

If you were a QA-Tester from an AAA-Game, you would probably know that it’s absolutely normal in game development to add things like emoticons etc. even during an alpha. Do you know the reason? I tell you:

Currently, the most important features that need to come in the next alphas must be developed by the programmers. So what should the grafic-artist do during that time? Nothing? No, he will do other stuff, like animating emotion. The grafic-artist will create content as soon as the game is at a stage, where more content needs to be developed. Furthermore, Malley (the grafic-artist) was especially hired to improve animations and make hearthlings more alive. So he is doing his job.


I can tell you, games that Look similar(not even the same) or Play similar does not mean the same development cost

Difference with Gnomoria? Well, first, we have a 3D environment, and our block size is waaay more smaller than Gnomoria, making pathing more expensive, and a marger world size, making it just more harder for the computer
They doen’t need animations, they don’t need to compensate for what a object looks like from more tha one angle, they, as i said have a simple and chunky tile size, and considering SH has tons of blocks, and pathing is one of the most heavy CPU hogs, you can see what it makes of it, and you can tell Gnomoria has waay more simple pathing than StoneHearth just by looking at it

And really, Gnomoria is different is So many ways, i haven’t played it sure, but just looking at footage shows so many differences

Banished is also different, they have Pre-Designed buildings that are constucted in a simple way (unlike our block-by-block), you can’t see into the buildings, and you don’t have control over the design or anything about it, just placement, it is at it’s core, more of a city builder in a more pre-made and easy manner, they don’t have to bother making buildings ‘buildable’ like we do, they just stand there and they get built, they even have a building grid, pathing is way easier due to it, and they focus less on the citizens themselvs, they have a resource management style while we have a more personal and customized style

And it may not seem like it because SH has a voxel art-style and cute and tiny look, but comapred to other city-builders and sims i’ve seen, it is actually Massive, it is ambitiouse and complex, but honestly, i thought it was simple too when i first took a look at it at the kickstarter stage

It’s just that StoneHearth is as ambitiouse and massive as it is Unique, there are games that look the same at the surface level, but SH has so much difference inside, that when you realize it, there’s nothing to compare to it, because there’s nothing like it,
there’s no game that set out to let the player plan every part if the city, every block, and still let the AI do the actual work, because the player just ordering to have a ‘house’ is way easier than one designing it with every block accounted separately, they get stuck and stumped because the design allows for no prediction or pre-planned routes, it will be as the player says so, and regardless of how messy the plan is, the game has to make it happen, block by block

And that’s only the building and pathing side of the difference and complications, jobs and personality, water and navigation(flying and such), just the general AI is way more complex in SH, because they all have a mind of their own, instead of being classes as batches or tools like many games do

Don’t get me wrong though, i don’t mean any offense, i just can’t stand at the comparison between games, games should be treated as their own being/type, no one game’s development is same or similar to another(unless it’s an actual clone, that’d be a different case) even if it looks or is generalized by a tag of genre, because just like how Portal is more of a puzzle game, not an fps like many call it, a game is not defined or is suited for a genre or generalization, it stand for it’s own; and thus should be treated uniquely


Ah, but the delivery date posted on the KickStarter was when they opened Alpha to public access. It wasn’t ever supposed to be the final product delivery date just the time when we would be able to start playing and they met that goal.

As for all these games you guys are comparing the development speed to most, if not all of them are using pre-existing game engines as a base. From my understanding StoneHearth is using a brand new game engine that they created utilizing the lua script programming language. So not only are they working on the game they are constantly making tweaks to the game engine so that it will support the new content and that will add to the time its going to take for beta and final release also. This is also the only game I have ever played that utilizes the lua script as its programming base as far is I know.


You’re right, my apologies. It should have been delivered in September 2014.

Ya know what I think? I think you should stop arguing and worrying about when the game will be fully released and why it hasn’t yet and just start enjoying this amazing game. I know I do. No, it isn’t completed yet and yes, it will take some time, but the devs love us and are working hard to bring us the most amazing game ever made peice by peice.

I have been playing this game since 2013, I just didn’t get into the actual community. (like a lonely hermit XD.) So when a new alpha came out I would always get so excited to see what was new. And that, my friends, is the beauty of being with this game through it’s (long) development. We get to see things as they come and experience this adventure with the Team Radiant. So stop worrying about what hasn’t happened and get excited about what has and will happen soon :smile:


Unless of course you want to use the macOS or Linux versions in which case it’s going to be a long wait.

If that is all you are waiting on I know of at least 3 ways to run windows programs on both operating systems. Including the ability of all mac computers to dual boot macOS and windows, and the ability to run any windows program from the command array in Linux.

If I run BootCamp I’m not running macOS I’m running Windows.

This has been a concern of my for a while. Pets were talked about by @Tom a while ago, but for several alpha’s now, I haven’t heard or seen anything.

I have to ask myself, with most of the original devs not really around anymore, are we sure that goal is still there?

The amount of updates and information has dropped dramatically though, as we’re almost to a next alpha release, and it’s been how long since we had an unstable build?[quote=“oldmacman, post:7, topic:26963”]
Perhaps someone could point to where the development path to beta is

Why are you in a rush for it to be marked Beta? Are you wanting an incomplete project?

You do that, and you’ll end up with every other piece of shit out there that uses the excuse of “pixel art” to provide a cheap looking product. If you’re asking for a city, and you want people in it, then they need life, which emotions, graphics, and animations apply to. Otherwise, go play SimCity, where you don’t get any of those.

If you followed Banished at all, you’ll know that the developer gave up on that early on, as well as didn’t have any real direction for it. To me at least, he made it sound like it was a college project he had to do. Stonehearth is SO much more developed than that game, so to compare time frames, would be stupid.

In a very recent stream Steph modeled a pet feeding item.

For sure (Tom and Tony are always consulted from what the other member told in streams), they are following their goals quite well. We even know what will come next, cause they keep telling us. Better desert, magmaSmith with lava, North Alliance… Why would they not make those anymore? Most of the goals have some parts in the game already. (Though not active yet, we have the rabbit clan and the arctic biome, a few magmaSmith stuff, etc…)

Release updates were always at a 2 or 3 months apart, last update (a19) was at the end of october? So we will get our stuff at January. Nothing wrong in the schedule. (And December is like vacations)
A13 was released in 2015, so this year we got 6 alphas (1 every 2 months)