[A16] Inept Clerics!

[Reedo]

@Freedom

effectively manage your troops.

For a start there are way to many clicks involved with microing combatants. To make it easier to manage combatants it would be great if once a combatant was selected right clicking the ground put down a move command, right clicking an enemy gave an attack command and maybe set attack move to alt right click. This would make micro far easier and more effective. You could set right clicking a friendly hearthling whilst a cleric is selected as focus heals on this hearthling.

That’s my biggest issue with combat too. Having to manually click the attack banner before selecting an enemy takes pretty long and is kind of counter intuitive.

[Velerin]

Would archer Toby feel out of place among archers Bob, Bill and Ben? Think he would try harder to stand out or be a little timid?

On a more serious note, anyone else find themselves trying to queue up click commands? I keep wanting to “move here” then “move here” then “attack here” only to remember I can’t.

[MelOzone]

@Freedom

For a start there are way to many clicks involved with microing combatants. To make it easier to manage combatants it would be great if once a combatant was selected right clicking the ground put down a move command, right clicking an enemy gave an attack command and maybe set attack move to alt right click. This would make micro far easier and more effective. You could set right clicking a friendly hearthling whilst a cleric is selected as focus heals on this hearthling.

Now that’s a good idea, along with queing commands. Maybe even charting routes (with consequent queued flags), then sending your troops down the prepared road and forgetting about it. Would be quite useful for planning attack on an enemy camp. Something akin to what the last C&C series had.

@Freedom

As stonehearth lacks a click and drag mechanic to select multiple hearthings to issue an order to, many different selection hotkeys would be needed to compensate, there are the simple ones ie select group 1-4, and then there are ones like select all archers, knights, etc. It would be beneficial to go further still with select all archers,knight,etc in group x.

Yep.
I’ve not played Dune for some time, but I remember there was Ctrl+Number to mark a group. Since Stonehearth doesn’t have “rubber band selection”, similar hotkeys for quickly assigning selected unit to a certain group would be nice. Like, I don’t know, Shift+Num and boom, a hearthling joins the Timber Wolves.
Also, it would be great to visually mark grouped units somehow to quickly distinguish what unit is in what group. RTS used group numbers rendered ontop of the unit but I feel it doesn’t quite fit into Stonehearth. It should be something fitting into the style yet quickly recognizable. Team coloured armor is an overkill perhaps, but… Maybe attach a team coloured flag to the back of the soldier? Or draw a colored circle around their legs?

Another note: I didn’t try Alpha 16 public release yet but I remember there was a problem with renaming. Either you couldn’t rename a hearthling or a group directly. Guess I’ll wait till my game updates and check it later, then post the issue separately.

PS. Timber Wolves is usually my name for a strike squad when rolling Ascendants.

[Freedom]

There is definitely something broken with the clerics heal cooldown, I’ve just been playing on hard mode and I got to the point where the first giant wolf shows up at day 8.
I have 2 footman and a cleric.
The battle starts and my cleric is keeping the footmen at 80% plus health, so the cleric starts attacking.
My footmen start losing health and they are at the point where they are both running away because they have less than 25% health and the cleric is still just attacking.
The cleric hasn’t cast heal in several real life minutes and I’m sat here like F*****G heal them already. Just when it looks like all hope is lost she heals both of them twice in the space of 20 seconds and they kill the wolf.
It all ended happily this time but that cleric is rather to reckless for my liking. Maybe a better explanation of the cooldown system for clerics is needed. Do they have some sort of mana pool that once used up they can’t cast heal again until it has refilled?

This is in 2972

[Hieronymous]

The way the game’s combat is set up right now direct control is pretty much required to keep your guys alive. You have to command retreat specifically, you have to coordinate attacks, you have to use archer fire arrows as crowd control against specific targets, etc.

Given that set up yeah I would like to see a “heal” command – it makes as much sense as the “attack” command for the combat classes and seems similarly necessary.

I’d like a little less need for direct control in combat but I don’t see how it’s possible short of something like my “knockout state” recommendation ( Combat needs a knockout state )

[Anymn]

I think a game like StoneHearth isn’t well off with direct controls, such as giving tactical orders. On the other hand, there is some need to strategically influence the battle.

My suggestion would be that every combat group has one general unit, indicated with a star. This general can be ordered freely around (direct control). The other group units under command of this general, will stay close to the general and make their own decisions. They will stay inside the ‘area of influence’ (AOI) of the general, but cannot be ordered individually.

Additionaly the general, and only the general, should have an UI to choose between an aggresive, normal or deffensive approach for the whole group. This will alter the behavior of the troups:

• Agressive: large AOI. General will chase with the group.
• Normal: small AOI. General will chase with the group.
• Defensive: Small AOI. General will hold ground, no chasing.

I think this blend of direct/indirect control is the easiest for players to master, give some opportunities for players to make strategic decisions, while maintaining the no-direct-control feeling.

[Soul]

Idea to help the cleric and fighting in general:

1. The last thing a healer should think about is attacking a enemy (imo). If a enemy attacks them, then they will attack (this will lower the decision it needs to make being a duel role class).

2. They should lower the number of hearthlings in a military group to 5 max (or whatever is deemed necessary) and assign a simple formation to the group. Front line/ middle/ rear, (ie: melee only/ melee and ranged capable/ ranged only). Assign the first person in the party as a leader and have the rest of the group follow the leader (lowering the path finding needs since the rest of the group only needs to follow). The formation will auto adjust healer types to the mid ranged area.

3. The healers will then position themselves directly behind the leader just within it’s spell range. If the rest of the front line gets hurt enough they will move into the healers spell range same with the rear line, not the other way around (lowering again the decisions the healer will need to make).

This way a further refinement can be made:

1. The leader gets top priority for healing, followed by the healer itself. If leader is dead or healer is leader, prioritize front line tank or highest hp fighter if no tank.
2. The healer will then prioritize healing any who move into it’s spell range with the lowest hp first, if more than 1 enters the spell range needing heals it will prioritize a AoE heal if it can.
3. if the healer has achieved it’s duties within it’s group it will heal any friendly unit that is within spell range.
4. If the healer cannot supply any heals (for whatever reason) it will engage what the leader is engaging. if leader dead or healer leader then attack what tank is attacking or if no tank attack what highest hp melee type is attacking. Once the healer is able to supply heals again it will move back into it’s original position before it starts healing again.

I’m sure someone could simplify the process even more

[Reedo]

What I don’t like about your idea is everything.

Let me get more specific:

1. I don’t want to be limited in party size.
2. Fixed formations are ridiculesly useless when the enemy isn’t in a formation. When your party leader is fighting a troll, does that mean his other men cannot chase some archers down?
3. Absolutely no control over combat. Wow, I send in my cool party, cannot give them any actual orders and let them get on with things. What if an enemy decides to go after the healer, but I cannot send my footmen in to help cause I don’t get to controll him individually?
4. Dear soul, game mechanic need to be understandable to the player and unfold during play. How do you tell a player that his healer will sometimes follow some leader, sometimes a tank or just not attack at all?

So, sorry mate, but your suggestion isn’t for me.

[Soul]

Okay?! Agree to disagree Instead of being snotty and condescending in your reply?

umm psst! I’m sorry it was too hard for you >.> I won’t tell anyone <.<

Moving along…

[Reedo]

Well i thought i’d explain why i disagree instead of just saying i disagree.