[Question] Paid mods

In light of the recent Steam fiasco regarding paid mods on Skyrim’s Steam Workshop (see below for links if you haven’t heard), I wanted to ask about Radiant’s stance on this issue with Stonehearth. Will there be a possibility to charge for mods in the future?


http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-has-removed-paid-mods-functionality-from-steam-workshop/

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That’s kind of a greyish area. If the modders are only releasing THEIR intellectual property, and no content from Radiant, then legally they could. However if someone was trying to sell content that is Radiant’s, then that would be theft, and a big no-no. In my personal opinion, as long as modders aren’t using ANY content whatsoever from the company that made the game, they should be allowed to sell there work. I personally wouldn’t do this, because it would most likely mean limiting the amount of people who get to play the mod. Then again, some people make mods for games as nearly a full time job. It would be like a third party releasing an expansion to the game.

Anyways, as long as you do not use ANY content from Radiant, ie. Code, graphics, logos, names, then you could sell it. However, I think we all like Radiant, and would not want to go against there wishes. The above is just my opinion, in legal terms anyways. I’m not a lawyer,so if anyone sees something wrong with what I said, please point it out to me. But, Radiant’s opinion on this is most important.

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Or anyone else. Trying to sell a LotR mod for Stonehearth will not go down well with the Tolkein estate, for example.

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perhaps @SteveAdamo @Relyss could page some of the devs then? i would, i just dont know if im allowed

I hope they do not allow paid mods at all! Mods are men’t to enhance a game and make it have more longevity. If someone wants to make money off of a game, than they should make their own. Or go get a job in the industry! Radiant has gone out of their way to make this game easily modded and i don’t think it would be fair to them for someone to turn a profit off of this!

This is just my opinion and in no way am i saying this is how it is.

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gotta say @devoderek i agree with you.

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It sucks you can pay for mods for skyrim I hope you cant for Stonehearth.

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The entire steam fiasco pretty much proves that mods should not be sold because in just 4 days not only did their entire system come crashing down, players were becoming increasingly irritated at the free mods that threw in nag screens to buy the paid version that interfered with gameplay. The steam mod store has pretty much set the modding community back to their own websites like the nexus and I wouldn’t be surprised if the steam workshop failed due to lack of new content.

The biggest problem with selling a mod is the code. It has to be all your own original code. If you ‘borrow’ code from someone else and sell it, they will come after you. That is what triggered the huge skyrim fiasco. Those two modders came to a peaceful agreement and pulled all their stuff that they could from steam.

Personally I feel that mods are where talented people can show off their ideas for a game they love, and share them with others. If you are charging for the mod you are not doing it for the love of the game, you are doing it for love of the money.

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[quote=“astyanyx, post:8, topic:12068”]
Personally I feel that mods are where talented people can show off their ideas for a game they love, and share them with others. If you are charging for the mod you are not doing it for the love of the game, you are doing it for love of the money.
[/quote]well said! I like the nexues more than steams workshop any how …

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My personal stance is grayish… I personally won’t release a paid mod, but I think it’d be cool for people to be able to make their own sort of dev team and work together on an expansion-sized mod. Obviously this requires heavy time commitment, so doing it for free would be difficult. I only know of a few mods like this across all the games I’ve played, and even they fall far short of a true expansion.

Of course, this leaves all the legal issues with using other people’s code or assets. Proper licensing is a possible solution, but that doesn’t solve the issue of others taking assets and not bothering to do anything “properly” legal about it. Then their mod has to be pulled, and that’s just the start of the headache.

@devoderek: The main issue is time. It takes time to create a game from the ground up. Radiant’s been hard at work for a couple of years now, and they’re still not quite finished with the basic features, to say nothing of actual content! Now imagine if you could spend all this time working on content such as new biomes/dimensions, new classes, new enemies, new scenarios, etc.

@astyanyx: That’s true, but I think their big issue was lumbering into an existing, relatively old (3 years) community which has gotten used to free mods. There could be no such contention if the modding system was immediately set up to provide for paid mods.

I do disagree with the whole “love of money” thing. Tom mentioned he and Tony quit their day jobs to start Radiant. I assume you’ve pre-ordered Stonehearth like the rest of us – you paid money for it. Would you say, then, that Radiant has a love for money? Or maybe they’re trying to support doing what they love full-time? That’s how I see it.

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So? You are creating a product, and have put time, effort and quite possibly money into it, so why shouldn’t you be able to get some financial recompense for your work? If people like your work enough to buy it. If they don’t think it’s worth shelling out money for, they won’t get it (okay, more likely they’ll pirate it, but w/e :stuck_out_tongue: ).

Now, I’m not saying I’d make / buy mods that require money to enjoy (I’m an old-school “mods = free” gamer), but if people want to do so, then assuming all the legal grey areas can be cleared up, I say let them - and they can sink or swim based on the quality of their work.

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im just gonna keep my opinions and thoughts to myself now, in hopes that a “war” doesnt start…

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Heh.

Looks like there’s not much need for a war anyway - Valve has backtracked on the paid mods experiment already :wink: . Which like I said, I’m kind of happy about anyway, because it means I don’t need to pay for any mods I like.

Just that philosophically, I’m okay with people selling mods for profit on the free market.

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Yeah, I’m not seeing much of a war here. More of a cautious stating of opinions.

That said, the only good reason I’ve seen so far against paid modding is the legal headache. Further opinions are welcome.

… Has there even been a legit flame war on SH Discourse before?

Heated arguments certainly (raises hand), but not really flame wars that I can recall.

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The difference between developers and modders is that the developers are creating original content from the ground up. They are providing all the primary resources, all the testing and debugging, and making a finished product. Modders are adding onto that finished product but their work cannot stand alone without it. The money rightfully goes to the people that have made the original product. Charging for mods is like someone signing their name on a book they didn’t write and then expecting to charge for the autograph.

Now, I will admit that it is a gray area. I would gladly pay for a mod that was approved by the developers and added major content to the game like some of the biggest skyrim mods do, but to pay people for making the sky a little bluer or for a fancy set of clothes with a swiss army battle axe, that is not really adding to the game. That is where the fighting starts in. How do you determine what is worth paying for, and how do you stop the flood of frivolous mods that are knocked out in an evening and are just money grabs?

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If modders are adding any new assets to the game at all, they’re doing the same thing. The fact that it’s just on a much smaller scale is by the by.

But the assets still exist outside of the game in the form of 3D models or lines of code or w/e. To be sure, they’re of little (if any) use without the game they’re meant for, but god knows people have spent money on enough useless stuff before now :wink: .

If you’re willing to pay for that then sure :slight_smile: . I mean, I think it’s daft, but who am I to tell you what you can or cannot do with your money?

You (or I) don’t. Let the market decide instead - if it’s worth paying for, people will pay for it, and if it’s not, news will get around quickly and the modder will have to reconsider the price.

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Would you pay for a “make the sky bluer” mod?

I would pay for a “new continent + ocean travelling + ship to ship combat” mod. I don’t think frivolous mods asking for cash are a concern, because nobody would give them cash. And even if they did, what about this situation gets you defensive over other people’s wallets? It’s their money, isn’t it? I understand where you’re coming from, it bothers me to see people fork out thousands (!) of dollars for Clash of Clans, Candy Crush Saga, and all their ilk, but in the end, I protect myself from it by not paying for any of that. Again, it’s their money, and I won’t tell them what to do with it.

The “original product” argument has more merit. However, I still don’t feel it’s sufficient. It’s like saying that no paid program for the Windows operating system can be written; you should write your own OS first, then run your program on that. Even that would be faulty, actually – you’d have to make your own hardware first, then your own OS, then your program. A bigger issue would be if someone released a popular paid mod that’s just a recolouring of assets included with the original game – I don’t know how to deal with that. Again, the only issue I see so far is the legal headache.

Edit: Way to beat me to the punch, @Teleros :stuck_out_tongue:

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I suppose my concern boils down to any proposed market flooding out the good mods with junk that is made overnight and with just the goal of making money. I am talking about mods I have seen that promise something big but give you something that is already in the game with a hastily tossed together button for it. I favor the donation plan over making someone by a mod before they can see that it is something that was tossed together and rushed out the door. If it is a donation system then you will get the modders that care about the game and not the ones that just slap something together.

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Valve’s design actually addressed this in two ways:

  1. Reviews. Pretty obvious, but the internet is amazing for this.
  2. A 24hr refund period, so that if you didn’t like the mod you could get your money back.