New class idea: Mayor

True, but if someone’s looking for just some roleplay involving a mayor then just rename one of your hearthlings into having the title “Mayor” before their name and give them a nicer house than the other plebs (which is what I’d recommend as that’s what I normally do if I want a leader figure out of my citizens).

But besides the roleplay your right the player is the mayor

Know what man I have nothing to say to this but your right bro, completely goddamn right and I know it

I didn’t mean to offend you if i did, i find it necessary to critique eath other’s ideas, so that each side learns, as an example, i’ve found it quite interesting of a concept of a class that unlocks a system, since it is quite a good idea, i’m just not sure if a Mayor is a good candidate for it

Nah mate I just mean you pointed out valid flaws in my arguement for a mayor which bettered my knowledge on how to go about a mayor class if there ever was to be any at all. Another flaw I find with it is that it seems to complicated, most of this game has a clean, simple feel to it whereas I find that the main idea I have for a mayor would be too complicated involving the player having to set the mayor to have x completed by y and x of y people only with z, g, or h of w, u, or i to be a,b,c, or d. By all those variables I mean having a certain number of your people with a certain body, mind, or spirit to be in a certain job. Generally though I think with some extra thought put into it may work. Not offended though, just to be clear this time lol :grin:

Exactly how I feel, I’m the mayor when I play, so don’t really feel that it needs to be a class. If it was, I could see it being some sort of a buff class, inspires people nearby to work faster or have higher chance of a fine item produced. Without being able to personally control him/her though it would still be a waste. I just don’t see it being a fun/beneficial class and would rather have resources dedicated in making other things.

As the above says, I don’t mean to offend you or stop you from making future suggestions, this one just doesn’t look like it would be a worthwhile adventure to me. Keep picking your brain though, just keep in mind all those boogers can’t be winners.

I’ve generally been against the idea of rulers, but I had a thought recently. Early concepts showed huge cities, but much more than 20 Hearthlings takes too much computing power for many computers. So what if you could somehow pad this with Hearthlings that wouldn’t have to think as much but would still fill up your town?

But what sort of passive bonuses could this sort of class give to be worth it, without needing entirety new features? Unlocking different types of zones, perhaps…

So I have taken the time to think about this. Here is my breakdown of this issue.
(Buckle up this one is in @YetiChow style, but longer :slight_smile:)

A mayor is a class that IRL makes dicisions and orders stuff.

1st point: But I, the player, am the mayor, not that peasant hearthling
This is just a title. Doesn’t have to mean he does stuff you do not get to do. we could even go into a philosophical debate over this its just a word, does it mean anything, does it have to, does the mayor have to be a leader, or are you the actual leader and is the mayor the servant of you and his people, maybe you and the mayor are the same hearthling, maybe you are god and not the mayor, yadi yadi yada, it doesn’t have to mean this class is going to take control away from you, in what you are able to design. We could design some system that gives the play more control through the mayor, like a puppet. This is what I personally think we should do. (Details later)

2nd point: But why would you do that, whatever the mayor can do, I can do myself without him
No, you can’t, if Radiant decides so. But at the same time, yes you can, if Radiant decides so. whether you think you should be able to do everything without the mayor is a thing on its own, and its another discussion that we can have in this thread That is because everything you can already control without him, is also through systems for controlling your city; UI, code tech, hearthling AI (OK, that’s also code tech), you get what I’m saying. Here we have to go into what a mayor would do.
-He could do automation of things you can normally do. I would be against that with a few exceptions because I agree with what Hyrule said about automation above. Or
-he could have something to do with systems of control that you normally cannot do (which I think should be the main bulk of what a mayor should do), or
-he can do things that you could normally do, or
-he can unlock passive bonusses (new zones etc), or
-he can do a combination of those things.
The third one might go a bit into the automation part, where at the mayor you can do stuff in a single step, that without the mayor would take you more steps (shortcutsagain, got ideas, but not now), with the added benefit that (as Hyrule said:) “if it doesn’t produce the perfect result”, you could do it manually anyway. If that is to micromanagy at the scale of a sizeble town I assume you have when you get the mayor again another debate that I will adress later, point 4 in fact then you must just stick with the shortcuts.

As far as adding new systems for control go, I would suggest adding the systems that the playerbase has been asking for:
-military patrol routes.
-worker prioritisation
-stockpile flow systems (I have trouble finding descriptive words for this, do you get what I mean by this?)
-etc.

I can come up with ideas as to how you would make sure it worked sufficiently well, and about how the player would make the descisions, but that is a little bit too detailed for this already long post

Now these are detailed, finnicky, and nuanced, and above all complex systems (or at least might be). Which IMO makes the argument stronger that, if you were going to implement them, why not though UI in the mayors workshop, instead of cluttering normal UI with it. Normal UI is for simple things, like new zones.

3rd point: But, if you are going to be adding these new control systems, why do you need an hearthling, that could also be a labouring worker, all the while the mayor doesn’t really do stuff in the “real” world of hearth. And no if it was just roleplaying that you can also roleplay the class
I agree on the roleplay, you can just roleplay the class and imagine it. But as far as doing something in the real world of hearth, well, I think that is possible. You might be thinking that all these systems could just be done in the workshop (UI window) of the mayor, with a picture of a mayor, and that is it. No actual mayor required, which is different from a crafter.
Except it isn’t. With crafters too, you go into a UI window (workshop) to give orders of what needs to happen. After that, it could also have showed a timer under the items name, let the thing be produced under the hood, and * poof * you got it. But, it doesn’t. Why, because radiant decided that after the task was ordered, instead of making the hidden code do it, the hearthling in question had to first go into the actual world and find actual ingredients, actually bringing them back to an actual workbench to then let the hidden code do its thing anyways while the hearthling with animations pretends to craft the object “the hearthling doesn’t drive the system, the system drives the hearthling.” If I sound mad here, I just want to say that I am not :slight_smile:(important spoiler) This same dicision could be made for whatever we or radiant think the mayor should be doing (which does not have to be limited to control-elements). Although some of you might think all a mayor does is unimportant behind the scenes stuff, but they do real stuff (and even signing an order [aka making descisions] could be considered real stuff).
As far as how that would look like, here is my personal opinion: A mayor (or any head of government) may make desicions, but then there is an entire apparatus of people and tasks to make the decisions into a reality. Some of that is red tape you do not need, but some also is not. We could decide these tasks had to be done IRH (In Real Hearth)I’ve got ideas to the specifics, but that is, again, too detailed for this überlong post, and if we did, we weren’'t going to expect to accompany the mayor class with all those minor classes for each and every task in that apparatus, would we. That I think would be going to far. Then again this is my opinion and this is one of those debates we need to be having.

4th point: But why a major like this and when
As for when you get the mayor there are three options:
-at the beginning without any requirements. As far as having a leader goes, that may makes sensedepending on your view in whether the player is the leader, but that is where it ends. I do not see any worth in not unlocking the things he does, (but again, that is my opinion)
-through the class tree: could work
-through unlocking township status, and then through mulitple steps of the class tree.
-through just unlocking township status what if he get higher title with higher tiers
The last one I think would make the most sense within the frame of what I’ve put up above this. Having more complicated control systems makes no sense to have in the beginning, when I think crude (as in, what you are used to now) measures should be enough for a settlement. You don’t need a stockpile priority system if you hav two or three stockpiles, you may need them as soon as every crafter has their own house, and you have a warehouse, at which point you settlement starts to more and more become a city that needs a mayor to do all the nuance governing. It also allows you to unlock these things, which may or may not be a good thing, depening on how you view it, but scince township unlocks more gameplay features, my personal opinion is that that is no problem.

-point 1, 2 and 4 also halfly apply to the other organisation classes that I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread

Pfeew :sweat_smile: Have I got everything now, I hope so. (might require some edits)

TL:DR; I am not going to consider writing a tl;dr. even that would be awfully long. The post is long enough now.

1 Like

Since I got to reading that (and I must say that’s a wall of text to rival many of mine for sheer length, so fair call LOL!), I must say that the idea of a mayor or leader class does make a little more gameplay sense in my mind.

I usually roleplay the town as having a leader (not just in Stonehearth but in other city-building games too), who will generally either be the first hearthling on the list or else one with an appropriate name for the setting. In fact, my forum handle YetiChow comes from roleplaying out the story of a worker in another game, who rose to leadership of his town before he wandered out to find cherries for the town to grow and ended up becoming a yeti’s lunch instead. So I’m totally down for having a way to mark/recognise a town leader.

I do like the idea that you can (s)elect a mayor when your town reaches tier 2; but I think the class should tie into diplomacy more than the “normal” gameplay. A mayor’s role isn’t just to create laws for the city; in fact that’s more down to the city council in most places. Rather, a mayor is a figurehead and spokesperson for their town/city; the link between that city’s council and the higher forms of government in the land.

So, I think it would make a lot of sense for the mayor’s office GUI to be similar to a trader’s shop, only instead of just buying and selling items it would set policies and create agreements. For example, the mayor’s GUI might allow you to buy a “favour” from the ruler of the domain you’ve settled in, such as getting a shipment of food or arms in order to deal with some upcoming crisis; or letting them know that you’ve got space for new immigrants.

Another really cool possibility would be for the mayor to have an option to intervene in pop-up events, either negotiating a better outcome or attempting to secure an alternative solution. For example, when a more powerful Red Kiln leader shows up the mayor might try to talk with them, or even try to intimidate them into leaving your town alone. Which options are available would depend on factors like your town’s wealth, military score, which crafters you have (and their levels), the mayor’s level, what items you have in storage…

actually, what I’m thinking of is somewhere between FTL’s blue text options, and Clockwork Empires’ pop-up events. The mayor gives you new options to deal with pop-ups, but you need to have the right resources.

The hearthling who works as the mayor could also act like a minor cleric-type support character, buffing hearthlings’ diligence and spirit. That way they wouldn’t just be cooped up in their office all the time, they’d be out meeting with their constituents and learning about the issues in your town, probably also settling the hearthlings’ concerns and assuring them that the problems will be dealt with.

2 Likes

Leaders, diplomacy… :bulb: … Someone give Paradox the license to make Crusader hearth’Lings II. :stuck_out_tongue:

But I think some light diplomacy in Stonehearth could actually work. Right now, it’s not needed, but it’s definitely something to consider with multiplayer. There’d be something really elegant about using the same diplomacy system in singleplayer with NPCs and in multiplayer with other players. Maybe you could set up automatic trades between players’ towns with the same menu, or at least you’d have a cool way to communicate within the game.

1 Like

I dont see it as we are the mayor for a mayor doesnt have console commands, gods on the other hand do. Its more of us being god of the world. idk thats just me tho.

I guess it comes down to what people want from their game. I’m more about aesthetics and watching a little world play out than pure gameplay efficiency, so having a Hearthling who’s “usefulness” is pretty minor but adds suitable character to the town structure and setting is important to me. And I still maintain that it works well as a gameplay progress/difficulty factor, again similar to elements like nobles in Dwarf Fortress. By the time you “need” a mayor, your town should be of the size and sufficiency that they can support one Hearthling who doesn’t directly produce items.

Who knows, maybe eventually they will add in a “luxury” system where certain Hearthlings will demand access to nice homes and foods all the time. Otherwise the player may as well just have everything in a barn, forever. I’m sure some players don’t mind that approach though, and players like myself will always want to build up a nice looking town anyway even if a barn was completely viable.

Dwarf Fortress also takes it to extremes, with players being unable to get an accurate inventory count for their town if they don’t have a dwarf installed in the right office to keep track of everything, but IMO that would be overkill for a more casual game like Stonehearth. But that’s along the lines of the role of a mayor in my mind, an office that simply needs to be filled mainly to unlock more complex gameplay elements indirectly, as well as having a ceremonial role. If the economy, building and military systems in a game can become progressively more complex then why can’t the player end systems also advance? As it stands the feeling of the game progresses from a tiny settlement where every detail is of concern to the player, to a small town where the game really starts to feel much more like a classic city builder game where the overarching economy and military control should feel a lot broader, instead of worrying about how many individual items you have.

I think it would even be useful in singleplayer.

1 Like

There’s just no real argument in favour of the mayor. The player is the mayor and he should have full control over what his hearthlings are doing. If the player wants that building XY gets build first, then he (as a mayor) should be able to decide that and not through a decorative mayor that has no real purpose on his own. I think adding the mayor with the suggestet functions would be a BIG downside of the game, because it takes away control the player as the mayor should have right from the start.

But here is my solution, since there are some who would like to see a cute little mayor walking around:

Why not let the player create his own mayor at the start of a game (he can choose the clothing, hairstyle, personality etc.) and this mayor is no real “hearthling”. He doesn’t count as a hearthling, nor does he perform any jobs. He is just there, walking around and watching the other hearthlings build his kingdom. Since the player created the mayor, he can identify himself with him and since he has no purpose, he will not limit the player in what he can do. And he will talk to idle hearthlings from time to time, or hold speechs at the campfire at night. This is purely cosmetic, but it would make the town much more lively. :slight_smile:

I think you misunderstand why I want the mayor. Its not to take control away from us its to give us more control. Currently we dont have any means of prioritizing anything. If they make it so you the player are the mayor then that will be amazing, a tab of everything being ordered by comes up and you can then prioritize. I have so much loot far away that they never pick up because something else is happening, sometimes if I set them only to haul they dont listen still. I just wanted a means of better control over this stuff. My bad I meant to reply to AaronD

Oooh, I that’s why I was confused.

It’s ok. :slight_smile: I’ll send it through

[quote=“nt_a_typ_o, post:31, topic:27103, full:true”]
I think you misunderstand why I want the mayor. Its not to take control away from us its to give us more control. Currently we dont have any means of prioritizing anything. If they make it so you the player are the mayor then that will be amazing, a tab of everything being ordered by comes up and you can then prioritize. I have so much loot far away that they never pick up because something else is happening, sometimes if I set them only to haul they dont listen still. I just wanted a means of better control over this stuff. My bad I meant to reply to AaronD [/quote]

need characters here for 20 char limit

Sorry, but the moment you gate control behind a hearthling, it removes control from the player. I’d rather see these new control mechanics directly integrated, so the player can use them right from the start without having to promote a hearthling for that. Because if I have to promote a hearthling to mayor in order to use those mechanics, it may take some days ingame before I can actually have him and then I still have one hearthling less for other jobs.

Just to be clear: I’m in favour of more control for the player, but I’m against the idea to gate this control behind a jobclass which doesn’t do anything practical on his own. He would just be a cosmetic hearthling running around, granting the player more control.

2 Likes

The only way, i would accept a mayor would be as an unique astethic class. Which has to be added from the start and acts simply as physicall appearance of a narrator, like deckard cain or the guy from the right corner in stronghold “we need more wood” or “food reserves are low”. He would be simply a npc, which has to be protected, fed and maybe fullfill their needs (like a proper house, writing desk)
That way we could push up the life without adding too many tasks for the pc, npc got much simpler cycles than proper hearthlings.
Also other “classes” would fit the npc role, like ambassadors, heralds, traders. In combination with the village status whihc has to be approved, by completing a monument, it add immersion to the gameplay.
But as other have already said, there is no need for an own class, since you would promote only hearthling for that role. Hearthlings are all peasants, they all have to work together and everyone can change the job or do the same job as their villagemembers. But something like mayor or village elder or whatever you want ot call it, is something completely unique and shouldn’t be promoted by any hearthling. As seperate npcs they would fit (functions bound to a living class), but they shouldn’t be handled the same way as our normal peasant hearthlings.
Imagine the situation where some functions are bound to a class, the class dies and you loose some functions, you simply promote another one, right? So you basicly loose a working class to a class you have to promote anyway. So why do have to simulate a promotion, i mean who would promote several mayors or kings?

1 Like

I don’t know if anyone has suggested this already, as there were several long posts and just a bit much for me to start reading through everything, but at least I hope my thoughts would be nice.

As I noticed several ppl has stated, the issue with the Mayor would be that this role would have no direct influence. However I think the Mayor have the potential of solving what I consider to be two major issues; effectiveness and leadership. As suggested the mayor could have a function as a prioritizer, which would mean that they could focus available hearthlings to do specific tasks. If you combine this with a leadership-role, where the Mayor could, for instance, command the hearthlings to focus more on gathering missing resources or give the player a report of which resources/constructions are lacking, it would give a lot more meaning to the game.

In addition, the Mayor could function as a leader much like the goblin-bosses where it rallies the fighters into a stronger combat force, meaning that if the player is busy with something else, the hearthlings could still organize a defense against enemy forces. The Mayor could also “command” severely hurt hearthlings to retreat from combat and get aid from a herbalist or cleric, that way giving them a bigger chance of survival and a quicker recovery.

The way I see it, this role would be a unique one which would give the player an effective “assistant” as the town grows. It would especially be a necessity if the game should one day be able to support like a few hundred hearthlings (not saying this will happen, but considering the alpha-state it’s still quite possible)

Organizing hearthlings = your job
Military organization = Group leader’s job if you want a little bit organization, the rest is your job.
Srsly guys, it’s a game there you have to take the important decisions, you have to play it, not watching simulation.