So… I’m just an artist, so take what I’m saying about anything not art related with heavy suspicion, but I think that’s already in. Isn’t that what the Goblin and Orc campaigns are? Just modules that anyone can make and modify to be their own story?
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At the basic level, yes. However, the way the modules were stacked up in the video, and the way that they talked about module characters working together, implied to me that the modules aren’t just stand-alone event chains; but different events which happen simultaneously and can interact with each other.
For example, when the video shows multiple monster populations on the map, I get the sense that those different populations have their own interactions regardless of what the player is doing. Perhaps the goblins and the undead in a region already have their ongoing events (whether it’s a war or some kind of truce/fragile peace, or perhaps they’re working together for some larger goal); but the player’s intervention sets the course of these events spinning away on a new track.
Or, as another example, say the goblins are fighting with your town and then a giant eldritch horror shows up… each of those events come from separate modules; but I got the sense that the goblins might dynamically decide that they’d now rather team up with you to defeat this eldritch threat, rather than keep fighting. Or perhaps they’ll simply run away and hope that you slow it down enough for them to make good on their escape…
My point here is that the modules were described in a way that seemed, to me at least, like the plan was for them to interact and connect together dynamically. Think of a Twine game, or a building-block/visual scripting routine; only new events are procedurally added as the existing events move forward, so it’s not just a linear story but one which takes abrupt turns as plot-twists and cliffhanger moments force their way into the ongoing narrative.
Now, I realise that the video is from years ago, and that these were all ideal plans rather than set-in-stone ideas. However, I think that Stonehearth’s direction still lines up perfectly with that original vision; and I suspect you guys at Radiant still want that same end goal as what was described in that video.
So, the question becomes how we get from here to there. IDK what ideas have been thrown around in meetings and brainstorming sessions, but for what they’re worth here are some ideas on how I’d get that effect:
- I’d start by defining multiple resolutions to each story/campaign/node, with a combination of victory and failure conditions as well as some “neutral” endings which simply clear away old nodes. This step is basically done already for the existing campaigns; and of course different campaigns have different possible resolutions (the township quests don’t have failure states, for example; you can go quickly or slowly but the only way to fail is if you stop playing).
- the second step would be to create a set of “secondary” nodes which can only be spawned by the conclusion of a “primary” node. These aren’t guaranteed to spawn, but they serve as tie-ins between other nodes. For example, when the current goblin campaign ends (I mean the part with Ogo and Mountain), there may be several possible new events triggered, based upon how you resolved the conflict. Some of these are based upon endings that the player triggers, such as befriending Mountain or defeating the invasion. Other endings, however, are triggered by external factors and situations.
Say, for example, that Cthulhu-titan shows up just as Ogo is demanding your shinies. This might trigger a new resolution to that goblin campaign, where they stop fighting because a bigger enemy has arrived. The player might get to influence the goblins’ choice through a dialogue, or the goblins might simply present a new option (“ally with us against the big guy!”) which the player can react to. Either way, this spins your relationship with the goblins off on a new trajectory… or maybe not, perhaps it’s just an alliance of convenience and you (or the goblins) will seize the opportunity to backstab and ally while they’re caught up in a battle.
If the team-up is successful, that opens up new potential nodes; so the goblins are likely to become less aggressive toward you or even become allies. On the other hand, if you attack them and break their trust, their next invasion will consist of everything they can throw at you, and they’ll give no quarter.
But, another possibility is that the goblins ally with the Cthulhu-titan. Or maybe you strike a bargain with it first? Or maybe the confluence of death and dark magics attracts a Black Cord party to come looking for their ancient crypts?
My point is that the connections between the stories don’t have to be linear, or obvious. The nodes themselves don’t have to be so dramatic, either – a node might be as simple as a flock of wild sheep moving through; but that might then allow a node for a pack of wolves to follow them. While hunting down those wild packs, the player might discover a dormant node based upon a previously unrevealed ruin; so those nodes play out in parallel without interacting… but later on, yet another node does interact with that ruin.
It’s certainly a complex system, but dreaming big is the whole point of this stage, right? The core idea is to have a lot of short, simple events which can combine together in a multitude of ways – exactly like building blocks – but they’re not just “dumb, dead legos”, each node talks to the nodes around it and figures out how they’re compatible (assuming they are at all), then the game ponders those compatabilities and decides which one to follow. So it’s a story that’s genuinely growing and evolving in a certain direction, rather than just a bunch of events piled on top of each other.
Hopefully that perspective gives you guys something to chew over 
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One thought could be a scalable opacity. From the light misty haze that is seen off in the distance of the current build to the jet black inkiness of some horrific shadow domain.
That way everyone can play the way they want, or experiment.
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Ah, I see what you’re saying. So, I’m definitely getting out of my depth (remember, I’m just an artist, I make things pretty or visually functional - I don’t make the game actually work in any way), you guys should ping the engineers if you want real answers. BUT, I can say that having NPC factions which act and react to the player as well as other factions is something we are really wanting to do (though I’m not sure when it could happen). Basically, we talk about a lot of the same things that are being discussed in this thread, and right now a lot of the conversations are “is this possible?” or “can we even do something like that?”, so… yeah, there are some cool ideas here, and more food for thought is always excellent : ).
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Yeah, I’d definitely like to see exploration of the world to be a bigger part of the game. We’re kind of in a weird space at the moment, in that we give so much information to the player we look like we’re providing all the info, but in actuality we’re not (see mining veins). We should either move towards a fully omnicient LoS model like in Rimworld and Dwarf Fortress, or move to a fog of war based system like Clockwork Empires or Unclaimed World.
Personally I’m a fan of a fog of war based approach, as I think it’s the most interesting. That said, moving to that isn’t without cost to the experience - as a player you’d likely need to give up some of your freedom to choose your starting location. Perhaps there’s an elegant in-between though, where we do a fog of war that looks something like a sketched topographical map until you view the area. At least that way you’d know where the bodies of water and mountains are.
Good discussion guys! Thanks for bringing this up. I’ve made sure that a re-evaluation of Fog of War is in our feature backlog.
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Right now you kind of already get “deceived” at the start.
The map thing generates a GIANT map then when you select where you settle and the actual in-game map is much much smaller portion of that.
I kind of like the idea of being surprised when you start a new game or it just gives you a tiny amount of info(like a 128x128) square in the center of a much larger map and you decide whether you like this starting area. That way if a player wants to settle on the edge of the world, exploring to that edge is all the more fun.
How about doing like you sent a survey team?
The map is FoW (maybe a low fog level were you can only see the mountain tops and water pools).
Pick a spot in the FoW
- Game clears a bit of the fog in that area (temporary until you confirm)
** You decided, nope! you don’t want to settle at that spot…
*Game closes the FoW
** You pick another spot around the map…
*Game clears the Fog in that area again.
** Yep! This looks pretty good!
*Game plants the starting flag and hearth and opens more of the area for the actual start of your settlement.
Note: Even if you try and remember all the previous spots to get a somewhat advantage it is unlikely you will remember them all. I mean sure! some will remember them but most will just enjoy the challenge of the the unknown.
Maybe give a bonus of opening the FoW around your area a little bit more than normal for using the first spot you picked.
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I remember some strategy games, where fog of war was scalable in the options - in a way @Geokhan suggested above. But the different fog also cloaks different indormation:
- no fog: everything is visible, always
- light fog: terrain and flora are always visible in the fog
- dense fog: only the terrain in visible, but no details (hostiles, flora, etc)
- pitch black: everything in the fog is completely invisible
One problem I can see with a too limited view is the picking of the start location. You do need some info about near resources and food. Otherweis, a new settlement can be hampered from the get-go. Picking a spot blindly is something for hardcore mode only, IMHO.
An alternate solution could be to pich the start location directly from the map of the preparations screen and the game then ensures, that al basic stuff is near this loaction (e.g. growing some berry bushes there).
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I don’t know how it would be hardcore…
Do you think they would remove the indicator on how much wildlife/resources and what not are in the area when you are looking around the map for a possible site to pick? I wouldn’t think so, that is a good thing to keep.
Not a fan on getting too much control in setting up the the perfect site in the beginning. Give the player too much control and they almost always will pick the path of least resistance. IMHO
Oh! It is hardmone of course. But yes, picking blindly is the only solution to the question raised above: how can a starting location be picked, without revealing the whole map befor hand? Otherweise it contradicts the idea of exploring an unknown land during the game - mind, I too prefer the current setup.
Read my response to you and at the end, it could be taken kind of like I was getting snippy… I am not. I hope you didn’t take it that way (sorry if you did).
Another way: Have the fog roll in after everyone has picked their location. Only those that can explore can remove the fog temporarily when exploring. Also as your town grows the fog evaporates.
Possibly find/make/purchase items that will remove the fog in areas.
If a event pops up a traveler visit the town and give you a location to a POI. Goblin camp, crypt, etc,.
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Don’t worry, it didn’t feel offended or something
I like the idea of travellers telling you about places of interest. Maybe, someone sells a map or some intel about precious resources (like veins in a mountain).
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Could even make it like a “treasure hunt” where through a series of events, you find a rare trader that give the piece that unlocks the next tier…
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How about a trader. whom sells recipes for very rare items? Stuff you can’t learn from somewhere else.
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Now THAT is a great idea! I really like that concept…could certainly prove fun and provide long term game play
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This would make a great mod to cater to those who enjoy it, and maybe eventually be an option in game, like a start game turn on/off, so people with less powerful computers or who are not fans of this idea, could experience a “classic” Stonehearth[quote=“Aviex, post:40, topic:26110”]
If we’re a god why can we only control the hearthlings and not all creatures of the world?
[/quote]
Maybe we are just gods of the Hearthlings, or gods that like to spice up their peoples’ lives?
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I was going to suggest that the map was hidden from view except for your village until you went out exploring. While a different type of game, one of the wonders that made a game like Minecraft fun was that you were always interested in seeing what was on the other side of that horizon. Stonehearth needs something similar to this so that you’re always in some sense of wonder. Additionally with extra nodes added to the map for various events, you’re driven to go find those with your army, rather than just scanning the map from your overhead view and then clicking on the event and watching your people go to work destroying it.
It also adds a greater sense of scale to the world, sure it’s big, but you can see the edges so you always know how big the sandbox is. Spawning your village in a location surrounded by darkness sets the tone that your villagers are out in the wilderness on their own.
Previous posts on this topic suggested an adventurer profession, personally I disagree. I think that it’s much better if you are in direct control of sending your hearthlings out into the wild. Otherwise it becomes auto-explore and you’re right back at the same spot you were at before, it just requires you to devote a hearthling to the activity and presto you have the map. By having to use your army, it’s a conscious decision to explore and you get the satisfaction of uncovering the world as you go.
A member from Team Radiant suggested a topographical overlay in the unexplored areas, that would work as well.
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I think introduction to a real RTS mode would benefit this, Setting up groups of hearths for exploring and able to click her and go there full with real controls would make exploring viable. The setup right now is lite RTS with flag points, but like going inot build more, we should get a RTS mode