Inherited Class Perks

Suggestions
1

This suggestion is going to come in two forms, a simple, and a complex. Both of which solve the same basic concern.

The problem:

I love the little perks that Hearthlings get when they level up, but it strikes me as weird that they don’t seem to keep them when changing classes. I realize that some of the perks don’t make much sense outside of their own class (Expanded craft recipes), but others could be extremely useful (Farmers +10 move speed, or Herbalist Regen Rate).

Simple Version:

Simply keep perks active when changing jobs. Sure, some of them (“I can make level 2 tailored outfits!”) won’t be useful in a different job, but others will be. This lets a long lived Hearthling gain a large body of experience, and lets you effectively customize your classes a little bit. Guards dying too quickly in battle? Give them a few levels of Herbalist so they get the Regen Rate, and drop a couple of levels of Farmer on your cleric so he can keep up better. Tired of your laborer’s long journey to the mines across the map? Get a few trappers, level them all the way, then demote them back down for that sweet sweet carrying capacity.

Complex Version:

Keep the perks as above, but also do a little bit of revision to the “Non useful” ones. Rework the prerequisites for jobs to be based off of perks, not class levels. Conversely, rework item crafting levels requirements to work of f of class levels, not perks. Finally, give the worker a leveling path and perks as well.

Perks:

Worker:
Apprentice: None
Lv 1: Hearty - Hard work is improving your health and body. (+5 Max HP, + 5 muscle)
Lv 2: The Good Haul - Learn to squeeze a little more in that old pack. (Backpack Capacity +1)
Lv 3: Brisk Pace - Look Lively Now. (+5 Speed).
Lv 4: Hardy - The rewards of a lot of honest sweat (+10 Max HP, +5 Stamina)
Lv 5: Strong Will - Forged in the labor of love for the Land (+5 Max HP, +5 Willpower)
Lv 6: The Big Haul - The more you carry in one trip, the less trips you need to make (Backpack Capacity +1)

Producers (Farmer, Trapper, Shepherd)
All of these perks are fine, no changes here.

Professionals:
All professionals now have a perk that only applies when they are actively set to their current profession:
Apprentice: Tools, for example “Blacksmith’s Tools”. This perk sets the appropriate craft menu & queue, and allows them to craft items for that profession. Unlike other perks, this perk is lost when changing jobs (as it really goes with the tool, not with the class.)
Lv 1: Basic Skill - Still has a lot to learn, but getting there - (Diligence + 2, Inventiveness +1)
Lv 2 (Blacksmith/Carpenter/Mason/Engineer): Hard Labor - Working hard all day has its own rewards - (+5 Max HP, Curiosity +1)
Lv 2 (Weaver/Herbalist/Cook/Potter): Meditative Labor - Work soothes the soul and teaches one about themselves - (+2 Curiosity, +2 Courage, +2 Compassion)
Lv 3: Burst of Inspiration - Sometimes, it just strikes - Has a small chance of empowering equippable items or potions with special effects, or generating a Fine version of the item if placeable.
Lv 4: Efficient Crafting - Saving scraps and careful cuts can yield huge rewards - Has a very small chance (Based on Diligence) of not consuming ingredients when crafting.
Lv 5: (class specific power ups, such as the Herbalist’s abiltiy to treat multipel patients)
Lv 6: Master - Known throughout the land. - increases the effectiveness of Efficient Crafting or Burst of Inspiration when working in this profession. If the craftsman change jobs away form this craft, they can still work the work queue for this craft at a much lower priority then their current profession if they would otherwise be idle.

Protectors:
Pretty much stay the same.

Final Thoughts
I realize the complex vision wasn’t likely, but I still wanted to share it. I do believe that the simple version would give us some interesting new methods of gameplay, and possibly interesting scenarios - such as trying to survive with only a few really highly skilled individuals, or taking on the Hard campaign with limited workers.

I also really want to see Workers get a leveling path, even if it is a slow one.

11 Likes
2

The main problem to this is that hearthlings shouldn’t change jobs that often. Currently the punishment for wishy washy jobs is that you don’t get to keep those perks and that you have much harder time leveling a hearthling into the new job.

I can see your reasoning, but, it feels to me at least like it’d make the game way too easy.

3

@Omegasa, a fair point, but I’m honestly not sure that “wishy washy jobs” as you put it should be punished. A wide breadth of experience should make a person better at what they do.

As for making the game easier, what if experience curves flatten as you take additional classes?

So, the first time you level a class to lv. 1, it costs 100xp. The second time, it costs 150xp. The third time, 200xp.

Level 2 normally costs 315 xp. (100 for level 1, 215 for level 2.) The second time you get a level 2, it costs a total of 472 xp. (150 for level 1, 322 for level 2) Third time - 630 xp. (200 for level 1, 430 for level 2)

Does that mitigate the difficulty concern?

4

Oh it’s not my issue @Josh_Patton It’s the dev’s punishment because as they have stated it would be too easy to level up all your hearthlings into say, combat, and switch it back and forth to defend your village, they want us to specialize our hearthlings.

A huge majority of this game is planning ahead from what I’ve seen and experienced. While this might make logical sense for say you or I, in reality, trying to do too much leaves you unable to do much at all.

5

@Omegasa, gotcha, I wasn’t considering hot-swapping back and forth.

From the perspective of having semi-permanent resident,s it boosts long term planning. How will I level these 4 herbalists quickly so that I can turn them into regenerating Knights to serve as the backbone of my army?

Yeah, with hot-swapping townies in response to a threat, I see that point. I may make another proposal if I come up with an answer to it, I’ll have to ponder that.

6

I can see the train of thought here - I did a lot of this kind of planning in FF Tactics, where I’d be considering multi-classing to get passive counterattacks on otherwise defenseless aggro classes, or to mix magic disciplines of backliners. However, the entire game is built around that. Hearthstone’s game is mostly built around the “big picture”, and juggling class promotions feels counterintuitive.

I still go into conniptions trying to micromanage promoting a new Blacksmith, bookmarking and temporarily shelving my high-level Blacksmith, smelting a bunch of ingots, promoting the new Blacksmith to an Engineer, and re-promoting my old Blacksmith. I don’t want more of that.

2 Likes
7

The idea has some interesting sides, and I agree that it would be good to preserve some of the perks. However I don’t like the idea of training hearthlings as different classes for the sole purpose of gaining certain additional perks. It feels like min/maxing and grinding, not immersive playing.
The trick here is to create a balanced system which rewards and punishes the player wisely, giving him more possibilities but discouraging from abusing the mechanics.

3 Likes
8

Maybe having 1 skill that stays with the hearthling when they swap jobs would be a better way to go about this.
This skill would be obtained once a hearthling has achieved level 6 in said profession. If you have ever got a hearthling to level 6 in more than one profession you will know that the current system has no way to punish you from hot swapping that hearthling between the mastered jobs.
So why not give mastering a job some extra bonus that a hearthling can take forward onto there next venture.

2 Likes
9

Or have the option, keep one perk, but lose the skill back to zero for that hearthling and only once they have mastered the skill.

10

That seems way too harsh for me.

Levels seem to get exponentially harder to get as a Hearthling levels up in any job. I feel like it’s already hard enough to get a Level 1 cook when promoting a farmer as soon as possible - and even worse if you leave your farmers to keep leveling because you desperately need food.

Running someone to Level 6 in multiple jobs would be like if you could level Hearthlings to Level 12 or 18. The XP required would be tremendous, and I think very few people would ever try it.

There should be at least some benefit to this besides the HP if this is supposed to actually be an interesting mechanic.

1 Like
11

Another option - what if hearthlings keep perks only if they were in child jobs. for example, a Cook would keep the Farmer perks that they have earned, but if they swap to a woodcutter hey lose them?

2 Likes
12

Then there would actually be no point to having footmen as Knights would just be so good, it would break the range/dps/defence triangle that is currently in place.

13

Except as steppingstones to great knights. That’s one of the choices. Do you spend the time to get your footmen to 6, or do you swap knights as soon as they are able to get the defenders faster?

1 Like
14

You mean over powered knights and rebalancing most of the game to fit, this is not going to happen.

15

This idea is great. In fact, I’ve proposed a more radical version of perk “inheritance” system which I call “perk shift” two weeks ago, even more messy than your complex version, so worry not about your complex version:
(New Character-Development Mechanics: Perk Shift)
So happy to see another person think about this. If we work together, maybe we can make a great system!
Plus, the senario of living with few but mighty hearthlings really apples to me: I just changed to a better computer last month, and I’m still used to have no more than 20 population.

16

It is no more unbalanced than the population slider is. Part of my goal here is to give the players stuck at like 12 population (default when I started) a fighting chance on any difficulty other than peaceful.

1 Like
17

Yeah, so it’s necessary to enable some players to have an “Elite hearthling” gameplay instead of “numerous hearthling”. Personally, I don’t mind if the process become equally or even a little bit more costly than having more hearthlings: maybe we can loot for a super rare “memory potion” from crypts, or buy a “life hack manual” from traders with 3000 gold, that’s not a problem. The point is to leave the way of “Elite hearthlings” open, because there are players like it much, and some players who can only go with it.

2 Likes
18

@Josh_Patton, a new idea I’ve got is that for the 3rd level and 6th level, the hearthling gains a retaining perk which will always be functioning or will be functional as long as the hearthling stay under the same job type,(producer, crafter, protector). This will be much easier to build than both your and my ideas, and can get around the “hot swap” problem addressed by Radiant official. It works like this:

Footman retaining perk:
lv3: rapid response (all): faster speed when town alert is on.
lv6: power boost (protectors only): deals extra damage/healing.

So retaining skill “rapid response” will work regardless of hearthling’s current job: if alert goes off, it leaps into battle faster as protectors, and will flee to safe spots faster as other jobs.
However, “power boost” only works if the hearthling is now a protector. If now he is a farmer who is forced to hit monsters with his hoe, sorry, no boost.

Now I think this system’s problem is that we’ll have to balance between “all” perks and “only” perks: I want to let players keep hearthlings leveling, but also have a level of specialization. So a player may want a hearthling to be footman first, then archer then knight, but not carpenter.

By the way, the retaining perks I planned for other protectors are like below:

Knight:
lv3: bashing (all): bash an enemy with weapon or tool at hand, deals no damage but stun it for a time which is proportional to the damage should be dealt. Have CD, will not be used on any already stunned enemy.
lv6: counter(protectors only): reflect all damage back to the attacker, have CD.

Archer:
lv3: armor piercing (protectors only): ignore 15% of enemy armor when attacking.
lv6: combo (protectors only): when a skill is used (like power strike, cleave, taunt, horn, double shot, healing aura), it’ll be followed by a quick attack if there is an available target.

Cleric:
lv3: healing channeling (all): being attuned to cleric’s healing power, this hearthling receive more healing when being healed by a cleric (from both directed heal and healing aura).
lv6: the blessed one (all): once every 10 days, when receiving a killing blow, become invulnerable and rapidly regain health for a short time.

So how do you like this?

BTW, now I don’t think Radiant will make this system or anything alike or serve the same purpose in the main game. So we may need to move this idea to “Modding” if we want to make it true. Guess we’ll need to recruit a coder, since I don’t know a thing regarding coding…

1 Like
19

@Xikai_Jiang, I like it, nice compromise between the two stances. There’s alos a lot that could be done in terms of the non-combat classes in this.

1 Like
20

Yeah, now I prepared these for producers:

Farmer:
Lv3: Farmland Roamer(all): 10% speed boost, roads’ speed booster power +50% on this hearthling.
Lv6: Nature’s offerings(all): when harvesting animals and corps, yield boosted by 20%

Trapper:
Lv3: Wilderness Wanderer(all): 10% speed boost, +3 carrying capacity
Lv6: Way of the wood(all): trees no longer block sight when detecting enemy.

Shepherd:
Lv3: Diliverer(Producer):10% speed boost when carrying resources.
Lv6: Tamer’s protection(all): Extra defense against all attacks that is made without weapon (like varanus’s bite, wolf bite, and orc head hammer).

For crafter, most of them will carry:
Lv3: Inspiration (Crafter): added chance of fine products.
Lv6: frugal (Crafter): sometimes crafting product doubled in number.

With these exceptions:

Cook:
Lv3: food pack(all): can carry a raw food item, eat when starving.
Lv6: lunch box(all): can carry a cooked food instead, and eat when hungry when carrying cooked food.

Hebalist:
Lv3: potion master(all): get more buff from potions.
Lv6: first aid (all): can carry a healing item, and use it to recover health once health dropped below 50%.

Engineer:
Lv3: entrenched (all): gain defensive bonus when near turrets and traps.
Lv6: lethal modder (crafter): gain access to “refined” weapons and armors, which provide 200% of attcak/defense but five times the cost. (for quivers, refined spiky arrows freezes target in place instead of slowing, while refined fire arrows can accumulate up to 3 layers of burning effect.)

The point of retained perks instead of mere buff is to make sure every mastery changes gameplay a little bit. For an example: an ex-farmer-trapper-herbalist-cleric footman will be able to take much more risk than normal footmen in combat, since it’s fast and almost unbeatable with its skill of healing and blessing. An ex-mason-potter carpenter will also be expected to pump out more gold since their higher chance of fine products and lower average cost. The perk of lowering cost also benefits ex-engineers, as it can somewhat compensate the high costs of refined gears.

So what do you think, time to recruit modding coder?