DT: Personal Space

I would suggest looking at The Sims for this again. Their mood can / is effected by the condition of their environment in multiple ways.


So many dirty jokes, just so many…

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I did not realize the additional hires were in other areas (to be honest, I was just under the impression that people had been added, so I’m glad I was even right about that!), good point.

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So I only read the original post and and watched the video. It says you hope that the type of food they eat etc will play into their morale. But I was looking at morale earlier today and it seemed they were upset about eating the same veggies, or yay… that jerky tasted better than I remember when you don’t eat it for a while (something like that). So it seems some of this is already implemented?

***Just wondering, total noob… :slight_smile:

It’s the EA tribute, for loyal fans… share, share, share! Get more people and they have to listen!

I actually just bought this game a few days ago after days of debating between this and another title. So I am not well-aware on early days, progress or as they call in a place starts with an “S” a fanboy.

But as for my statement above about getting the game more attention and players… I have seen the exact same calls for action in other games (one I put in like 2k hours on).

Ok so the point is, I agree… “I wish I had as much optimism to even start believing that a single individual, or maybe half a dozen, could make a company with a thousand employees and billions in revenue, owned by another company with ten thousands of employees and tens of billions in revenue, even remotely care.”

from what i understand, even though the journal entries say that right now, the actual game mechanics for it aren’t there yet.

also, welcome to the discourse :smile:

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You are reading my mind sir. I’ve talked about every one of those features as things we should do.

I understand, and really, he’s right on it, it’s pretty much impossible to think of it Actually happening, and i’m just on the thought that we can always give a game even a tiny bit of a chance, that’s worth trying

And for me, though, i don’t think StoneHearth is in immediate danger of such happening, i just wanted to spread the thought

Im up for anything that makes my hearthlings feel more alive and less robotic. Right now I dont even flinch after watching a hearthling die when I can afford his death as I know another clone shall arrive come morning.

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Thanks for the explanation… and thanks for the welcome!

Thought about this some more while on the way to work this morning, and figured I’d share.

The main idea that I had was to give beds something akin to the Personal Space radians, for two purposes.

The first one is to establish a room; basically send them out in directions up to, say, 40 squares, and noting any non-traversable obstacles or doors. I considered windows, but trivial as it might be, the tooltip for doors is “Privacy at last!” and the tooltip for windows is, “So much for privacy,” so I feel like windows shouldn’t be excepted. This gives you a volume that’s effectively belonging to the Hearthling, and placed objects in the room could be used to develop a ‘quality of life’ morale boost. Whether that’s gold value or some nebulous ‘morale value’ doesn’t really matter.

Might be worth it to have a diminishing returns value for items- the first decorative vase gives, say, 0.1 morale. The 2nd gives 0.05, the 3rd gives 0.025, and so on. Because even Hearthlings who collect vases aren’t going to have a room of wall to wall pottery.

The second application of these radians is bed detection. Basically, having your own private space is a nice thing, and while sharing is okay, there’s a big difference between your own space and living in a barracks. Mechanically, for each bed the radians hit, the morale bonus in the room decreases. Maybe it’s a flat, divide by n+1, where n = number of beds, maybe it’s another diminishing returns thing, whatever it is, having somewhere that’s yours and yours alone is more beneficial than sharing a bedchamber with a dozen other people.

Of course, this is a fantasy setting. The above may not apply equally or to all races. Maybe dwarves prefer more communal dwellings. Given the changes to the job tree, maybe pottery boosts Ascendancy morale more than it does for Rayya’s Children, and vice versa with carpentry. Maybe all of this results in too much code, object information, and CPU usage. I don’t know. But I thought it was interesting as ideas.

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One problem with area of effect personal space/mood detection.
Beds are always against a wall or a corner. It’s where they’re most aesthetically pleasing. When I stand next to the wall in a spacious room, the room doesn’t suddenly become smaller. I don’t want my hearthlings mood to plummet because I like putting beds in corners, I already have this problem in other similar games. cough rimworld cough

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That’s the nice side-effect of windows here – put one in above the bed and suddenly it doesn’t feel squished into a corner.

However, I totally agree that simply being close to one wall shouldn’t have a serious negative impact… in fact, I’m inclined to say that having the bed next to 1 or 2 walls should have a positive impact. Most people I know sleep up against a wall, partly because it saves space but also partly because it feels cozier to have your back or side up against something while you sleep. I know that some people prefer to spread out and have a lot of open space around them, and there’s a luxury about having a large bed in the middle of a clear room… but I reckon we’re naturally inclined to look for something solid to act as an “anchor” to our sense of space while we’re sleeping.

As such, I agree that the polygon could be improved a little so that it’s not just “obstruction detected, happiness slowly decreasing.” Ideally I’d like to see it be “solid wall/object, light source, comfortable furniture (this can be a bed or chair or possibly even a desk), cute decoration and space to move about all detected nearby, happiness increase set to maximum”, and to only get a happiness decrease if 3 or more of the rays are cut off by solid objects.

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Guys, just think about how long a hearthlings stays in a bed… It will not matter where ti is placed… They spend so little there, and there is multiple things that can speed it up even more, like good stats and potions.

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There’s also the case of injured hearthlings potentially spending days at a time recovering, especially in the early game before the herbalist/cleric can heal them quickly.

It’s not just beds though, the solutions implemented for beds should also work when the hearthlings sit down to eat, or when they’re simply congregating in the dining hall after eating. It also means that players will be able to place fire pits indoors without being punished with hearthlings feeling cramped.

I agree, in most situations there’s no need to worry about a hearthling spending a couple of minutes next to a wall; but the idea of these suggested improvements is to eliminate the “my hearthlings are upset because of where they’re milling around, and there’s very little I can do about it” situation.

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Perhaps the solution to the sleep/eat corner conundrum is simpler; I know when you’re sitting down your real life personal space shrinks, perhaps the radians shrink when they’re eating in a chair. And perhaps when they sleep it disappears altogether? Just ideas.

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I’d say make the Heartjlings detect what surface is near them, so the AI will say something like…
“if a object is touching the detection ray, shrink polygon accordingly, if object is a building, add 50% length to that ray’s shortened length with no additional collision past the object, *added length does not get longer than the max distance”

If this is possible, that will make the hearthlings feel more comfortable in a building compared to a cave of the same size

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This is definitely a viable alternative… in fact, I’d say it’s a more practical option which still gives the intended effect.

As much as I’d like hearthlings to feel safe behind solid walls, I realise that option is very dev-intensive to implement; I would certainly understand if they went with the simpler alternative since it works in 75% of the same situations.

Im not sure about this one. If I’m in a very small room which feels unformtable, it’s harder to sleep in that room in my opinion. At least for some that’s the case. ^^

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I think the easiest way to solve the problem of being next to a wall or corner is to just try to expand the personal space in the opposite direction. That way the hearthling still require the same amount of open space along any axis, but they don’t have to be in the center of that open space.

Checking if you’re in a closed off room, the size of it and it’s content might be done with the navigation mesh. It should already have doors marked out. Checking if a part of the nav mesh is part of a closed off room shouldn’t be too difficult and only need to be done when the nav mesh is updated. Parts of the nav mesh that are part of the same room can point to the same room object, describing the size, content and value of the room.

Best wishes to Yang and Doug on their new jobs and thanks for what you’ve done for this game.

I highly doubt that Riot had anything to do with them leaving (at least not in the sense of getting rid of them). People get new jobs for a lot of reasons. New experiences, higher salary, closer to home and so on. The team have been expanding, so Riot still have interest in the game and even if they would be an evil company that only care about money, getting rid of the main sound guy and one of the programmers with the most experience of actually making games is not cost effective.

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I just finished a new version of the personal space algorithm so that being in the corner of a room or along a wall will be the same as standing in the center of the room. It’s actually very similar to what @Agon describes. We just offset the the sampling box in the direction away from the walls.

This should be in the next unstable release.

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