Desktop Tuesday: Edge of the World

[YetiChow]

I’m a big fan of the map edge as the world border – the book is cool but a little too fantastical for my tastes, like it’s “just as story” rather than “part of a larger story”. The map implies travel, which may lead on to there being other locations; and of course you can make that explicit if you do go with neighbouring towns or civilizations by having “to the ____ of ___” written along the edges with arrows. They need not even be other towns, the Valley of Dragons or the Forest of Woes or the Iron Hills or whatever would all give the impression that there’s a whole world outside the boundaries of this town/settlement.

The island and floating island feel more like biomes than map edges. They look thouroughly awesome and I want to play both of them; but those two ideas have more gameplay potential than just marking out the edges of the playing area.

I actually really like the look of the clouds, but I can understand how the cliff-like effect can work against the intention. That said, I’d really like to see clouds added; since we already have the cloud shadows moving across the ground. Don’t Starve does a really cool trick to let you know when you’re at the limit of your zoom involving clouds, and I think this would be a great gameplay/UI use for clouds that feels immersive. If you’re looking down from really high up (i.e. max zoom), there could be a border of clouds outside the playing area beyond the map border; plus a few clouds floating across the playing area. From lower down, the clouds aren’t shown, so you avoid issues with them looking weird from underneath. That lets players know immediately that they’ve reached the max zoom, and the limits of what they can directly see and control. As they get closer to the ground, they can see the map edge more clearly, and know that it will be up to their hearthlings (who can get even closer still) to actually cross that map border in order to make contact with the other sides.

One thing I’d like to point out though: I haven’t seen any complaints about a “boring” map edge; to me that means no players have a problem with it or find it immersion-breaking. That doesn’t mean it can’t be improved; but what it does mean is that your players’ expectations basically line up with what they’re seeing already in the map edge. If you make the map edge cooler, players will have a new set of expectations to go along with that. If you go with the book, then it’s reasonable to assume some carry-over of the story from one ‘chapter’ (save game) to the next; if you go with the map style border then players will expect to be able to connect the maps to contact neighbours and so on. The island absolutely mandates some kind of boats or sailing; even if it’s just for trading and exploring with off-map neighbours. The floating island would necessitate some kind of story about why that chunk of world was torn out and thrown into the sky; and probably some kind of portal or flight mechanic to explain how visitors get there…

Whichever way you go, most of the cooler options require something else to really make them pop. So, I’d suggest you guys hold off on any changes to the map border until you’ve nailed down what gameplay effect it has – are there neighbours, trade routes, invading armies (I’m thinking dozens- or even hundreds-strong forces that set up a camp near the map edge and prepare for a full-on conquest), allies requesting your aid, etc. etc.? When you know how players will interact with the map edge (or not at all, if that’s what you end up with), you can express that much more easily through artistic choices; but right now the ideas are disconnected from what the player actually gets to do with the map edge.

As I see it, there’s no urgency at all to implement map edge improvements; so that gives you a LOT of creative freedom to do something really cool with it

[Thomas]

I realy love the map version with the fog of war drawn in a map style and thatis not because I’m also looking forward to civilization IV

[MoonSight]

I perosnally like the Map and the Book,

They bolth are very stylish with a good feel of SH and they’re probably the easiest to expand as multiple

The Book can flip a page to go to another biome in a more stylish way

And the map just kinda explains itself

I agree that other box size can lead to confusion, especially the cloud and fog

Other games(ex: Civ) have made the player use to a concept that the map will expand if they apporach the borders, which isn’t gonna happen here, so we need to consider that learned byes

The floading island for me seems to exotic, too much so that it may become a bit repetitive, because it’s a major visual thing, and it’s most likely repeated

The map and book are also visual, but tey don’t have such a big impression, so it’s not that they don’t get repetitive, it’s that they just don’t get too into the eye to be a point to remember

[Banto]

Would love if the map grew so it could become bigger and bigger the more you play but i think the other ideas was cool also with the book.

Maps for sure in the future will have to be way bigger for Multiplayer and maybe even for Singelplayer

Would also be cool to be able to “Leave” the map for example send your Troop away on a Mission and a new area loads like a Dungeon or a Raid or you can travel to big towns and trade with their markets and once you for example go on a mission or to a big town to trade or what ever areas you load in that new map so it dont have to be connected with this world directly but like an instance in a mmo for example new map

[sdee]

Also, welcome to the discourse, @uniquename !

[Samrik]

Liked because you mentioned fractals and I’m a math nut but this is a really good idea.

[Yeti]

I think the island (floating or in water) are both cool ideas. Both could easily be translated for multiplayer use. Both also would work for titans. Based off of Cthulhu being the first titan to be made, it would be cool to see him rise from the depths and smash your town, or follow your Hearthling’s exploration vessel back from their adventures. This would work well for the scenarios: A mysterious vessel (ship or air exploration?) arrives, the crew is dead or insane minus one, they warn of an elder god coming.

[Agon]

Love the concepts. Great work @Allie!

I prefer the map, book or map in book. Looks good and it doesn’t change the world, just gives an aesthetic reason to why you don’t see the rest of it.
It reminded me of this old thread, though it is more about cartographers and a version of fog of war in an endless world where the map gets distorted as memories fade.
Cartographers and things out of sight

An alternative to the cloud edge could be a fog. Closer to the ground and if you look at the horizon you see the occasional tree, mountaintop or castle ruin that peaks through. The edge shouldn’t be vertical but more slanted (still using blocks of course), so the hearthlings could take a few steps into it, with their head still above it, but don’t dare to go further. The edge also need too look less solid. Think overlapping, semitransparent blocks, slowly drifting.
Would still be weird under ground though.

I was going to dismiss the islands entirely. Not because I don’t like them (it would be a nice alternative and there could definitely be a place in the world for island in both ocean and sky) but because it would change the world too much if there were only islands. It would change the feel, especially if it’s islands in the sky, and a lot of people who have already bought the game might be upset.
I also didn’t see why your people would end up on an island with so little supplies and without a vessel. Shipwrecked? Then they would want to leave with the first trader passing by. But then I thought, maybe they’ve been dropped off with a mission to start a settlement and they don’t get to bring much because they are expected to prove themselves.
It’s also a bit weird to explain where all the animals and enemies come from but then I guess you could say that this is a compromised representation of a realistic island so the forest is much larger and you don’t see all the animals all the time. Intelligent enemies could be dropped off, same as you. Titans still give me a headache though.
On the plus side, magical island in the sky could motivate having different biomes closer together.
All in all you could probably make it work if you’re not worried about upsetting a few people.

For example, what if, after you select a place to travel, you get there and it turns out that place was actually set adrift from the rest of the land and turned into an island?

That… would be very confusing and even if you come up with lore that support it it would feel repetitive fast if that accident happened every time. In case of any kind of island it should be a matter of picking your island. That way you could also let the player pick an island with a more interesting shape than a square.

In case of the book version, if you try to lead your soldiers beyond the edge of the map some handwriting could appear on the ground saying “but that is another story” or something like that and they turn around and walk back a little bit.
Come to think of it, showing small excerpts from your settlement’s story like that could be a nice way to remind the player of the storybook theme (if that’s what you want) and to hint of more than the player can see. Could be both for special events and for random stuff. “Never had she seen a turnip like this.” “Only one stayed up, working through the night.” “The battle was won, but no one would call it a victory.” They should be rare though, so they don’t get annoying.