Class Idea: Janitor

[HolyCheese21]

Hey guys, I thought now that we have items, clothing, etc which can be crafted it may be beneficial to have a janitor. This would require trash-cans as well.

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My idea for implementation into the game is as follows:

• Any equipment/clothing/items that you want to throw away will have the option Discard on the item panel. When clicked a worker will be queued to throw the item away into the nearest trash-can. The janitor will soon clean-out filled trash-cans, allowing for a more complete [realistic] city/strategy sim. When the janitor is not cleaning any trash-cans he acts as a regular worker.*

• The Janitor will also clean (sweep the floors/roads)

• Trash-cans would be carved out of wood by the carpenter.

• The janitor would be promoted with a wooden broom also crafted by the carpenter.

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What do you guys think?

[Atralane]

Not a bad idea, especially for later-game situations. This does conflict with the idea of “recycling” items some other members have suggested, so I wonder if there’s a way the two concepts can be merged–that way, your janitor team essentially acts as a way to both manage unwanted inventory and refuel your kingdom’s raw material supply.

[easto1a]

if this is a thing then they would have to be like the ones in roller coaster tycoon as id would love to see cut grass
cut grass

[HolyCheese21]

Reply: Atralane

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I’m not sure how realistic the players/devs want the game to be but wood is generally not recyclable. It may be weird to take a wooden lantern and have someone hammer it into a block of wood again. I could see metals as recyclable with a forge. But a wooden sword would be better to throw away.

[Atralane]

Right, most early recipes like that wouldn’t have much recycling value–definitely more of a later-material concept, I meant.

As for construction, however, wood and stone can be occasionally reused from a previous building. I can’t remember for certain, but I believe being able to reuse blocks from a house or such was something the team is looking into…

[blackArcher52]

allowing for a more realistic city/strategy sim. When the janitor is not cleaning any trash-cans he acts as a regular worker.

if you want a true realistic fantasy sim game then there should not be a janitor at all or at very late games where vehicles like cars if any are present. REASON: back in the medieval era also know as the dark ages there was no trash cans to throw away anything it was just a road that people would roof the trash out window and land on the road which would help to the black plague. so thats the real fantasy sim.

also i like the idea that if you waste stuff then your going to have to find out how to make use of it.

[woollysmash]

I’m fine with the idea but rather than trash why not recycle crafted items into one of their base elements? That way it can be reused later, and make its way back into the stockpile.

[Atralane]

It’s similar to how the building scaffolding gets reverted back to wood blocks once the structure is completed–then it can be used for other purposes.

Not really sure how it works, though, in terms of reality! (Considering @HolyCheese21 and @blackArcher52’s comments earlier…)

But yes, I really like the concept of a maintenance class that specializes with hauling/repurposing/disposing of crafted resources. That way, once the town starts getting bigger, your settlers’ can be organized into different groups; normal settlers will focus then more on cutting trees, mining, building houses, etc., and the janitors/recyclers focus on the materials/items already in your possession (home zone).

Since it’s a fairly basic concept, I wonder if this profession should work differently than the others already seen–that you can switch back to a regular settler if needed. Or maybe it should fall under an upgrade for the normal settler, offering more options and specific duties you can assign? You mentioned in the first post, @HolyCheese21, your idea was that they act like regular workers when not collecting, so I’m curious what you think.

[Teleros]

I’m just not convinced by this idea TBH…

You’re using up a precious resource (population) - why not keep the settler as a worker or similar. Then, if you have trash you wan to deal with, you trade it to others, or make a giant trash stockpile, or leave it somewhere for idiot goblins to “steal”.

[Atralane]

or leave it somewhere for idiot goblins to “steal”.

I have a strong feeling that eventually, goblins’ AI is going to push them to find better-value items the further you get in the game–they’re not going to simply stop to take all of your leftover wooden swords or hunks o’ stone when you have a city just a few meters farther off made of gold. Honestly, I expect them to eventually ignore such items entirely by some point. They’ll be making their own equipment and possessions, too.

Leaving trash and old items all over the outskirts of your town will probably also affect your settlement’s rating and your people’s happiness.

As for using up population, it’s far from that. Right now, the normal settler is responsible for chopping wood, (mining,) building houses, and transporting all items both in and out of town to designated stockpiles. That’s a wide diversity of tasks for them. The janitor concept is just one way to streamline and specify these tasks so certain workers will focus on one area of tasks, rather than running all over the place due to your commands between your raw resource supplies and your city.

(That’s also the reason I suggested the ability to either switch back to a normal settler, or offer it as an option under villager commands. It’s never a restrictive, final decision this way and can be used as you need it.)

[Teleros]

[quote=“Atralane, post:10, topic:6937”]I have a strong feeling that eventually, goblins’ AI is going to push them to find better-value items the further you get in the game–they’re not going to simply stop to take all of your leftover wooden swords or hunks o’ stone when you have a city just a few meters farther off made of gold. Honestly, I expect them to eventually ignore such items entirely by some point. They’ll be making their own equipment and possessions, too.

Leaving trash and old items all over the outskirts of your town will probably also affect your settlement’s rating and your people’s happiness.[/quote]
Maybe; still, the trade option usually works in these games. Even if the value is set to zero, you just trade 'em away and get nothing back beyond more stockpile room .

(That’s also the reason I suggested the ability to either switch back to a normal settler, or offer it as an option under villager commands. It’s never a restrictive, final decision this way and can be used as you need it.)

Maybe, but meh, still not fully convinced. Part of the thing with SH is that how you divide up your population into jobs is meant to be a big deal, and this does rather go against the grain in that regard.

I dunno, maybe you can set worker profession / individual priorities eventually, and/or emphasise projects like Banished does. Not sure a temporary profession is the right way to go about it though.

[Phagocytosis]

You’re using up a precious resource (population) - why not keep the settler as a worker or similar. Then, if you have trash you wan to deal with, you trade it to others, or make a giant trash stockpile, or leave it somewhere for idiot goblins to “steal”.

I am inclined to agree in principle… however, it might be alright if, like certain other professions already in, the janitor works on regular worker stuff when there’s no cleaning/recycling/whatever to be done. This way, it’s sort of as though they’re just workers that also do clean-up, but you never get everybody focusing on clean-up and neglecting tree-cutting and building duties.

However, I’m still not too sure. In the end, I do think having this be worker jobs sounds better to me, with improved AI so that no job gets neglected for too long (unlike now, where certain jobs sometimes don’t seem to get done at all).

[Teleros]

however, it might be alright if, like certain other professions already in, the janitor works on regular worker stuff when there’s no cleaning/recycling/whatever to be done

That sounds more like a regular priority list though.

[Phagocytosis]

That sounds more like a regular priority list though.

Sure, except, again, not everybody has the same list due to differences in professions. I.e. you never get everyone sweeping the floor rather than chopping wood.

[Atralane]

Maybe, but meh, still not fully convinced. Part of the thing with SH is that how you divide up your population into jobs is meant to be a big deal, and this does rather go against the grain in that regard.

I dunno, maybe you can set worker profession / individual priorities eventually, and/or emphasise projects like Banished does. Not sure a temporary profession is the right way to go about it though.

Yeah, there’s still a lot of game functions to be introduced before a concept like this would truly show its merits–Stonehearth’s still young, and most playthroughs aren’t long enough yet to see a sub-system in your workers like this really be necessary.

Still, it’s not a bad idea, @HolyCheese21. It’s an interesting way to classify your workers and offer a nice bonus function, too. I hope some form of these ideas eventually make it into the game.

I have to wonder–if the janitor had a workshop (likely a multi-worker one), what would it look like…?

[HolyCheese21]

Since it’s a fairly basic concept, I wonder if this profession should work differently than the others already seen–that you can switch back to a regular settler if needed. Or maybe it should fall under an upgrade for the normal settler, offering more options and specific duties you can assign? You mentioned in the first post, @HolyCheese21, your idea was that they act like regular workers when not collecting, so I’m curious what you think.

**I think that since the janitor may not have much to-do before your settlement gets big that it may be beneficial to have him do simple jobs such as chop wood, harvest, haul items. But the janitor job (taking out trash / sweeping the floors) will always have priority over those.

You’re using up a precious resource (population) - why not keep the settler as a worker or similar.

In a strategy/city management you’re going to have to make important decisions and deciding which worker-classes you need is one of them. Having someone (worker/settler) who can do everything can ruin the game.

Leaving trash and old items all over the outskirts of your town will probably also affect your settlement’s rating and your people’s happiness.

good point, agreed

Then, if you have trash you wan to deal with, you trade it to others

Many players enjoy being warmongers and because of this you could create enemies of everybody and have no one to trade to. A janitor is just another option of getting rid of trash, it’s not mandatory.

[Original_emii]

What about Teachers/Nannys/Wetnurse for child rearing. who watches the kids while adults are working?

[untrustedlife]

how about no, what about players who dont wnat to deal with “Janitors” note the game is supposed to be compatible with multiple play styles, notably, one that focuses on city building, while the other focuses on conquest and total war. This would interfere with those who prefer conquest.

http://stonehearth.net/stonehearth/

[Geoffers747]

one that focuses on city building, while the other focuses on conquest and total war.

Well, it’s important to remember that first and foremost this is a settlement builder, the focus is on that, I’m not too sure how much conquest or ‘total war’ there will be in the game.

This would interfere with those who prefer conquest.

Assuming that there is a conquest aspect to Stonehearth, it would seem a bit unfair to say that something shouldn’t be discussed because it would conflict with the ‘conquest’ side of things - you could flip that around and rightly say that “well I don’t like this because it conflicts with the building side of things”.

What do you guys think?

As for the original class suggestion, I’m not overly convinced it would be a necessary class role - I can perhaps see a ‘cleaning’ aspect incorporated into another class - perhaps even the basic worker as @Atralane suggests.

If we draw comparisons to say the Miasma in Dwarf Fortress that comes from dead animals/bodies (that’s right yes?) then the basic workers haul around the waste and whatnot in DF, so this could simply be the case for SH.

[untrustedlife]

There will be, they SAID there will be, so there will be.
see exhibit A:
http://stonehearth.net/stonehearth

We know that there are lots of different play-styles for this kind of game. Some players want to focus on building an incredibly awesome city with happy, well-fed citizens. Others focus on building a strong army and exploring/conquering the realm. Many just want to tinker with the simulations in the game world. We want you to play the game the way you want to, so as you play the world will respond to your choices.

If they do not have support for multiple playstyles, which was a selling point, then I will be dissapointed, quite dissapointed as the concept of a sort of city builder rpg hybrid appeals to me and was one of the reasons i bought the game.

I also like building of course, but I still dont like the idea of… well… janitors… i mean seriously… janitors… in a fantasy game.It just doesnt sit right to me.