Only one problem. . .
good pointā¦ if the intent is to provide a similar trade-off (micro/macro) for farming, it seems reasonable that perhaps something similar could be introduced for the trapperā¦
good exampleā¦ you can take direct control to focus a trapper in an area where YOU see a higher concentration of animals, or set some sort of automated threshold and let him head off and randomly (and less efficiently, perhaps) roam the landscape to reach the requested number of itemsā¦
absolutely thisā¦ there will always be times when you have that āoh dear Raya!ā momentā¦ being able to pause, assess and react would be lovelyā¦ 
indeedā¦ multi-purpose unitā¦ initially, using him to determine the lay of the land (manually controlling him, as he scouts for potential enemy outposts, etc.)ā¦ once you are relatively comfortable with your immediate surroundings, you could possibly let your trapper head into the previously explored areas to hunt for food, while you shift your focus back to buildingā¦
One thing that hasnāt been a center of focus is the trappers upgrades. From what I think remember Tom saying, the hunter and such will be more autonomous. During the beginning of the game there isnāt too much to do besides gathering resources and building up infrastructure, I see the complete direct control of the trapper would be useful for scouting out the area and giving you something to do while your civilization starts. Then after youāve explored and infrastructure is up and running the trapper can upgrade and become autonomous, or at least more autonomous.
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Yes itās a good idea it could explain the fact that the trapper learns the hunt and becomes more autonomous.
At the beginning it will be hard to hunt but after he turns into a hunter it will be so easy to hunt.
I vote for your idea Avairian=P
Very interesting discussion; I wonāt chime with details yet since I havenāt played Alpha 2 yet, but one thought:
Is looking at the question of whether the trapper needs less micromanagement or not looking at the idea in too granular a fashion? I think that maybe itās more of a question about selecting classes that require less/more micromanagement as part of your strategy. So perhaps if you donāt want to deal with directly controlling the Trapper you donāt use it, and instead thereās some less management intensive scouting option that forgoes the hunting ability. And if you want meat/fur you use the herder, which requires less micromanagement. Or maybe later upgrades to the class make it more automated (ie, the Hunter does his thing without supervision), to echo Avairianās idea.
-Will
I admit that Iām a little divided on this.
I really liked controlling the trapper and although I think traps should be placed and animals attracted to them (and not throwing traps over them lol) this a whole different subject.
I do believe, however, that there SHOULD be a way to automate trappers. There should be a way to tell them āHunt around hereā.
This concern comes from experience with a lot of sandbox and city-sim games and Iām sure many people here will agree with this (if they didnāt think it already): the idea of having a āmini-gameā of sorts is good but when you have a big city with hundreds of citizens this will simply not work. For trappers to be profitable (manually) with hundreds of people youād have to play with them the whole time. If theyāre not automated theyāll simply be useless after the early stages of the game.
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Thatās why you upgrade them.
Still itāll be easier to gauge what needs to be done once the game and class tree is more fleshed out.
Well, I just hope the later classes will be more automated, then 
The easiest way is a switcher 
The trapper works normaly automated and if you want you can change to direct control I think thats the best option - so you have something to do and you can use it in later stages also (when you have no time for this āminigameā) ^^
I think we could some what achieve the best of both worlds here. Let him/her set his traps and leave, later, after some scouting through a way-points/patrol system he/she can come back to check them. Donāt however let the trapper set traps anywhere though, he is a trapper/hunter type so make him/her act like one, Use a system similar to āDonāt Starveā where in he finds trails or scat or other indication of animals in the area, then he/she can set his/her traps along common trails. Give the animals common path/ predictable trails and let us find them when scouting then set traps up and come back later to see if we caught something. I hope this made sense.
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I really like that idea @sdhaight1! certainly lends itself to the concept of multitasking with a unitā¦ explore the landscape to 1) simply uncover it and 2) potentially locate signs of wildlifeā¦
set your traps, and then continue with the exploration! 
Something else to consider is what happens when you start getting more people in your settlement. I donāt mind micro-ing the trapper too much at the momentā¦ but perhaps there should be an option to automate him (perhaps via tech-ing up somehow?).
Suppose I have a town with ~100 people in it - at that stage Iād rather focus on things other than moving my trapper (who I still want because reasons, obviously ).
Alternatively, perhaps the trapper is simply coming play at the wrong time. For example, whenever I start a game I pick a spot with some berries & lots of wood nearby: I really donāt need a trapper all that much - heck, turning one of my 5 workers (the 6th is always a carpenter, of course) means 20% less woodcutting / building / berry-picking / whatever, so itās arguably a problem*. However, I could see him being really useful if my settlement is in or near a glacier biome with little plant food or arable land for farming.
So how about we take a page from Dwarf Fortress? When you choose the map, you get to choose which early-game gathering profession to start with. Eg farmerās hoe / shepherdās crook / trapperās knife + carpenterās saw = equipment you embark with (well, plus some wood logs ). One of them would be chosen by default, either based on RNG or based on your embark point (āoh, youāve picked a mountain? Trapper knife instead of farmerās hoe thenā etc).
From there, it shouldnāt be too long for players to make the other items if they decide they want a trapper as well as a farmer 10mins into the game. Now, I get that players can of course just not use the trapperās knife when they start a game, but it seems that giving players (especially new players) a poke in the āhey, get some foodā direction is a good idea in general, so I think you want just the trapperās knife if the intent is for players to first build a farm (or whatever) and then see about trapping. Give them stuff they can use more or less immediately instead.
*I totally understand that āmanaging your workforceā is a key part of the game. However, why pick a trapper when I can get food from berries just as / more easily AND without losing a regular labourer for other jobs?
well, there are probably two good reasonsā¦ the trapper can serve double-duty, scouting out and revealing your surroundingsā¦ and the food he collects might provide more (or different) beneficial effects for your unitsā¦
I have good news for you. Thatās exactly what we have planned. You know that embark screen we added a few patches ago? Once the class tree is fleshed out, the second stage of embarking will be to choose some basic starting gear and supplies.
This is why your guys start the game carrying 2 wood, a saw, and a trapperās knife. The missing piece is the configuration screen that lets you choose what your settlers start with, and of course more classes so you can make an interesting choice.
We will always start you with a Carpenterās Saw, because the Carpenter is the root of our tech tree, but the rest will be up to you.
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You will also be able to conquer / invade villages etc.
I havenāt posted here for a long time but for this discussion, as itās touching the core design and mechanics of the game, i felt that i have to say my opinion.
One of the things that drew me to the game was the idea that you plan everything and then watch your people execute your plans, without directly controling them and telling them how to do it. what i like about this mechanic is that it gives you time to look at your town as it develop, see what are the needs of your people and plan your future steps without getting distracted by the need to control one unit and focus on it (iām not talking about battles, this is a different part of the game).
The way that the trapper works right now reminds me of starcraft and other RTS games where you send your troops to different directions on the map and control their actions while trying to keep building your base. stonehearth is not even close to the level of micromanagement of starcraft but i did found myself not building things that i wanted at the town because i was focused on the trapper. i could have queued everything in advance and chopped enough trees for it but itās not how i like to play the game, and as youāll get more options for your town it would get harder (try to imagine playing dwarf fortress but with the need to control your hunters and search for animals or you wonāt get meat and leather [it would be hard for a lot of reasons i guess but iām talking about how it would distract you]).
Iām not against directly controlling your units and i think that a mechanic like this should be in the game, but it should be done right (i really like @sdhaight1ās suggestion for example).
Yeah thereās that 
. Obviously itās a bit hard to say for certain one way or the other when weāre so early in the alpha ^^ .
ok, this is fantastic news! certainly adds to the strategy element, not to mention replay-abilityā¦
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On the opinion side I would automate the trapper. But I understand the experiment and think it should have been executed, and conclude that IMO it is too much micro.
As for what a trapper does in real life:
- Make traps
- Run a trap line (or several)
- Inspect trap line
- Process captured animals
- Repeat
I donāt think you need to designate an area to trap. The trapper will move his trap lines if they donāt catch anything. This will have the trapper move slowly away from the camp as he depletes the local animals. There is really no ācontrolā needed.
When combat comes around there might need to be an āalarmā rung that warns those in the woods to return to safety, or to hide in the woods until the āall clearā.
For the time being itās fine because as said, it gives you something to do.
In time, the more automated things are the better. In fact, if I could dictate areas to be chopped and picked instead of individual bushes and trees that would be awesome. If carpenters could pitch in with other activities whilst not crafting works would be great. Ect ect.
But right now the trapper is filling the void it needs to fill while being tested.
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