Improved Management of Combat

Yeah, because they let their “guard” down, getting the spikey arrows before the Archers come is essential IMO

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Yeah taking out the kobold archers fleeing takes longer than taking out enemy tank ^^

I have mentioned this a good while back, but that defend location, should not be a flag where the soilders stand around, but simply a zone that the player can drag out, just like the trappers area for example, or stockpiles.
Then only if an enemy enters that zone, the combatparty assigned to defend that zone, should react, no matter where they are on the map, and go straight there to defend the location.

The defend locationflag, could be changed to a guardpost thing? Where an assigned hearthling will stand there as a guard.

Even the patrolbehaviour could be changed to not circle stockpiles and farmingzones, but be inside a new patrolingzone? Then the player can drag out pathways, where the soilders need to patrol.

As mentioned elsewhere, i would like to have a new UI for the use of potions, with a timer and maybe an autofeature?

Combatrelated, i am not a huge fan of mixing the drag to select units into the game (But it would surely be an improvement) But rather see the AI of the hearthlings improved, so they understood that in certain situations, they needed to focus on what threat is biggest. For example, if the enemy they fight take to long to kill, check if the opponent have a healer? If yes, go target that healer! In any situation, any other teammember than the clerics, should check if they are inside the range of the cleric, if not? Go towards the healer!

Naming the combatparties! We had this option back in the past, but it is not there anymore?

Thank you for making this thread @SnorrLaxZ, it is surely needed! :heartpulse: :merry:

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That’s a lot of good suggestions @Fornjotr !

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I too have strong (sadly mostly negative) opinions about the combat UX, as it stands today. Specific to your guard post/defend UX suggestion, I second this (along with defining patrol routes through way points… kind of like how you define a bus route in City: Skylines).

But perhaps my most important gripe with combat today is the fact that ranged units do not prioritize higher Y axis when determining where to path. If an archer CAN take a position on higher ground and still hit their target, they should always do so. Further, when defining a guard/defense zone, the zone should show as three-dimensional, so the player can know exactly what is and is not in range.

And a note about range – the defense zone should be a movement boundary, not an engagement boundary (but the UI should absolutely display them both discreetly) – that is to say, as long as the unit stays physically within the boundary, they should engage any hostiles within their range. That means archers can and should stand on the edge of the defined zone a fire upon anything they’re able to hit, even if that target is physically outside the boundary.

Perhaps the zone is to define movement boundary, and when you click on a military class, the UI shows a reach zone (in 3D).

If the zone was three-dimensional AND ranged units always preferred higher Y values over lower ones AND they were never allowed to physically leave their defense zones, then archers would properly leverage things like towers, castle walls, and so on, without requiring player intervention.

Also: defend/guard zones should be resize-able, and not require the player to first remove the zone to create a new one.

@sdee @max99x your thoughts?

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Oh, and squads should intelligently hold defend positions – e.g. taking shifts for R&R so that the position is never left undefended.

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There is just this issue with the soilders having to stay in a defend location/zone. They have to leave it when they need to sleep or eat? And ussually they tend to not do it all at once… So most of the times, when Invaders alert pops up, there is one single footman or archer standing there, with no back up. If it is the enemy that has to step into the zone, it dont matter where the rest is? Eating, sleeping, talking, hauling even? they will rush there to intercept.

But i see the point with the archers and i agree that they should have something special to take account for height :slight_smile:

Maybe i am misunderstanding what you where writting?..

True. I think the first problem is that, as it stands today, they will stand there until they die unless the player intervenes. I honestly can’t remember if they fixed that problem yet or not, but, either way, I would still like to see more purposeful self-management of zones such that a minimum force is always active.

Right now squads don’t have a concept of a unit – they’re just a group of individuals tied together. So the game handles their needs like individuals, and not as a unit. Someone should be allowed to stay hungry/tired/in need of social time until they are relieved.

They don’t have an off-duty vs. on-duty state. If they’re off-duty, they should be allowed to path like a normal worker and ignore the defense zone. If someone in their unit is on-duty and sounds the alarm, they should immediately go back on duty and rush to participate, no matter if they’re currently tired or hungry.

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We appreciate all these combat suggestions, and I definitely feel your pain with the way the controls and UX and really, everything works at the moment. In an ideal universe, we’d like to do a complete overhaul! That said, We’re focused hard on bugs and performance right now, though, and unfortunately have no plans to update combat since I strongly suspect it’s like a ball of yarn–touch one combat AI thing, and soon you’ll be touching them all. :frowning:

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Hmm… sad day. After having played through the game nearly end-to-end again after waiting to do so for a long time (I think it’s been a year or two since I tried it), I can honestly say combat now feels, by far, the most under-baked. To the point where, in the late game, I’ve started just pausing when a large orc + senior archer + cleric party spawns and manually destroy them with console commands, because the sub-par combat + the (IMHO) OP senior raid parties are game-breaking. I have a squad of six, all max level with good kit, 2 of each class, with turrets near my town, and they get crushed because of the combat AI problems. I can’t micro them fast enough, is what it comes down to. And I shouldn’t have to micro them at all, ideally.

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I can honestly say combat now feels, by far, the most under-baked.

I know, and I’m really sorry. We haven’t touched it basically since mid-2016, when we added the archer, knight, and cleric.

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I hope you guys gets to touch it sometime in the future to polish it into a great experience once there is time and money to :slight_smile:

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Is it realistic to hope the team will be able to prioritize it at some point in 2018/2019? Or should we give up on that, accept it likely won’t happen, and look at ways to mod it? I’d prefer vanilla improvement over community mod, but if it’s the only route, it’d be good to know.

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This is actually my next UI mod project, in which I plan to include not just potions but all usable items, like market stalls. If someone else wants to make it, go ahead, but if you want to wait, I’ll get there eventually. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Looking forward to that mod !

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Awesome, I do support you guys focusing on performance and bugs as of right now, take your time ^^.

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Seems fair enough that Combat wont get an overhaul. It works at this point, just not perfect. At least we know that it will be up to modders to make any improvements in this department.
Whoever makes this mod, will properly get the most downloaded mod on the workshop i presume :rofl:

Thanks for the answers @sdee :sunny:

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Apologies, it will not be a priority in that time frame. I would definitely love to see what you get to with mods, though :slight_smile:

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Sadly, I’m no dev, so I personally won’t be getting anywhere. I’d definitely support a mod if someone were to work on one though.

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Oh man, real sad day. With combat being in a done state and seeing the road map incomplete makes me to believe that some features might not be completed or fully drawn out as we had hoped. Is that true?

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