Desktop Tuesday: Exploration Prototype 1

Exciting! It’s always cool to see ideas evolve, even if they’re suppose to be prototypes.

I have an idea for the talismans though!
This idea was something i was considering for the Mythical Creatures mod but i suppose it’d be good to get it out there for the team at this occasion

The idea was sorta like a trasure-hunt in a narrative way, the idea was like this :
Scinario : A NPC fall sick from a… Snake Bite! Oh no! It’s a special snake and only medici from a mandragora can cure it!
You are tasked with finding a mandragora that spawned somewhere in the world and to kill it and retrieve the herbs to make a cure!
If the player succeeds the NPC lives! And he/she will gift the player’s town with a ‘Special’ item!

For the mod’s sake this would be something magical but for the game the Quest would be anything that suites or is randomly generated, and the reward can be… say… a recipe for a Talisman!

This will make each new talisman (or recipe for it) not be pre-located, and be randomly placed and not brodcasted to the player from the very beginning with some odd icons withing the FoW (maybe they appear/spawn after the quest is given or isn’t there at-all, so the player has to guess, or it’s within the explored area givne that it’s wide enough)

What this does mean though is that the carpenter/potter and footmen have to be given from the start(or at-least one footmen), and since quests might be far in between it may encourage givng the player a recipe instead of a single talisman, but this also means the recipes/talismans can be obtained without having to risk a footman since the player can easily tell if the objective requires combat or not (also meaning that there can be quests that don’t requre combat)
This can also be done in alongisde the ‘changing environment’ since quest can be a consequence or the reason of said change, so there can be some context to the change and the quest
This doens’t mean pre-locatd treasures can’t be a thing of-course! They can be good friends! …maybe

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You need to be very careful as this is crossing several gameplay concepts such as building, logistics, combat and exploration. Different players are going to enjoy these different concepts to various degrees, but if you force them to go through one to reach the other that will feel more like a restriction than content.

By requiring players to claim talismans from guarded chests you are forcing players who may be more interested in building and logistics (ie developing the supply and demand of the town) into combat. This is removing a gameplay choice from the player. Combat gameplay should reward combat related rewards. Examples may be unique armors or weapons, or possibly new combat class talismans.

This is not to say that crossing gameplay concepts should never be done, but it this seems like a rather extreme barrier from one to another. One way to do this is to provide rewards that can be obtained via two methods. Consequently this can cheapen the reward a little, like when a players is rewarded with something they’ve already gotten.

Exploration is a little different, however, as it generally requires other gameplay concepts in order to provide challenge, however combat should not be the only one used. Implement restrictive terrain that requires either new buildings or production of certain materials to overcome.

For example, to expand on exploring underground, implement a miner class that requires a pick axe. Make it so they require higher levels to dig through different materials. Maybe the pick axes break so you have to maintain a supply of them to continue. Another, simpler example, require bridges to cross rivers.

Also, exploration should provide the opportunity to expand as a potential reward. Maybe allow claiming of remote buildings.

One last thing, while I’ve given several restrictions here, it’s always fun when a game somehow manages to work it’s way around such pitfalls. If you find a way to make exploration challenging in it’s own right, without the use of other pre-existing mechanics, that would be pretty cool.

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I’d hate it if Stonehearth permanently went in this direction, but I do kind of want this as a mod. Whatever’s in the final game definitely needs to not take up as much of the focus. But right now part of me really wants to play this version for a bit.

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agreed.

I can’t wait for actual rare ores and a faster way to mine stone and dirt.

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I’m glad @sdee directly brings this up in the video. She specifically says she doesn’t want to pull us away from building our settlement towards the end of the video.

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An older game, Maelstrom, had the option to play the game from the RTS camera that it was meant to be played from, but you could then go into first-person view and play the map from an FPS standpoint of your commander; essentially fighting along side your troops if wanted.

Bringing that to Stonehearth…I personally am going to say no. I don’t see a real point to it. What do you really get from seeing your buildings from the point of your 'lings? Short of adding mini-games to the game with “helping out”, I don’t see this benefitting at all.


I remember you…vaguely. At least your name sounds familiar. Sorry I can’t pinpoint more to your name.


Similiar to this post.

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It was also present in Dungeon Keeper, in the form of “Possession” spell, where you could “enter” any of your creatures and fight alongside them. This feature is also present in DK2 and War for the Overworld. I, hovewer, too, am hesitant to bring that to Stonehearth. FPS combat in my opinion is not Stonehearth’s style. There is hardly an explanation for that lore-wise (unlike Dungeon Keeper where you were an unseen but omnipresent Keeper with few physical manifestations but vast psychic powers).
It would probably speak to me if it came down to FPS exploration… but then again, we already have Terraria, Starbound and Minecraft. We can always play them if we want that experience.

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How do you choose the place to start your settlement if there’s Fog of War?

Currently, you just kinda look around for a nice place to start because the map was revealed, but with Fog of War does that mean you don’t get to choose a starting location and just get randomly spawned in? That would really suck for those who have a specific play style and get set into a place that negates their ability to do certain things like dig into the side of a hill…

Maybe the Hearthlings get spawned in, but instead of having a placed flag, you have a flag carrier get x amount of time to look around and find a good starting area. I don’t know how well that would work or how much work it would take though since I just enjoy playing the game and following the updates. Maybe there’s a better way to have a settlement placed with Fog of War?

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an easy way to solve this is have the player spawn at one of the edges of the map, of their own choosing, they would still know where general landmarks are, but not specifics

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That’s why it’s a fairly radical suggestion – I’m not talking about just the FPS camera, I’m talking about pivoting the entire game slightly so that instead of being a disembodied god-like controller, the player is represented/embodied in the game. So when the hearthlings or some wandering NPC wants to address you with a question, they refer to you with the character name you set during avatar creation (which would be a sub-stage within the embarkation screen), when there’s a food shortage you’d find out because nobody brought you dinner for a couple of days in a row (of course, if you’re in leadership mode you could still spot the shortage for yourself before that point, but if you’re focussing somewhere else then the hunger pangs will interrupt your focus), when in FPS mode the player can outright talk to the hearthlings – it would be like the dialogue options in an RPG, rather than a dynamic conversation, but you’d still get the chance to hear directly what the hearthlings are feeling and give them advice or orders to deal with that, or just encourage them and try to make them feel better.

Terraria, Starbound and Minecraft have all tried to create the feeling of being included in a town, but most of the time the NPCs seemingly have their own lives unrelated to yours and you just go around the world playing either the murder-hobo or the benevolent monument constructor who occasionally buys supplies/equipment. The Minecraft mod Millenaire probably comes closest to what I’m suggesting here, but again there’s no reason beyond personal interest to stick with a particular village in that mod.

What I’m imagining and suggesting is to make the game explicitly revolve around the player rather than the group of hearthlings they control. The player’s character has to rely on the hearthlings for help to survive and thrive, just like they’re forced to rely on the player currently. So it’s not meant to be an opt-in, opt-out activity you take up to kill time or to get an edge on the early-game difficulty curve; it would be a core gameplay loop – you build the town up so your life is more comfortable, now that you don’t have to focus so much on survival (someone brings you meals in your house, you have guards patrolling the town, etc.) you can spend more and more time focussing on the future rather than the present. I don’t think the survival elements should overpower the existing gameplay, but it would be a strong encouragement to players to “take care of business” correctly – it’s not just some hearthlings at stake anymore, this is now the player’s story and they’re right down there in the thick of it.

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That’s precisely why I am against it. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying what you suggest is “bad”. I just don’t like it :merry:

You see, I don’t view my folks as “just some hearthlings”. Instead of associating myself with a certain individual, or a disembodied “godlike entity”, as you suggested, I associate myself with the collective as a whole - and with each and every one part of it, all at once. It’s like writing a book. You don’t write it about a single person, unless it’s Robinson Crusoe. You write it about a bunch of characters, moving, thinking, interacting with each other. In a sense, you are the town you build. Having a single avatar strictly defined in time and space for me means sticking to a very… confined perspective.
And I’m not talking about the Field of View here.

You already kinda can do it. Nothing stops you from placing flag, then moving it when you find a more suitable place. And “limited time” has form of an “embarking happiness bonus” - for some time your hearthlings are not bothered by sleeping on the ground that much (maybe it needs some duration tweaking if the fog is to be implemented). Still, visually a concept of a “flag bearer” is attractive, but I would prefer the whole group of hearthlings with it at the very start - just like a “Settler” unit in Civilization. “We’re a bunch of nomads on the move”, then “It’s a cool place, we like it”. Some time to wander, look for a better place… which leads to

That depends on how the fog is implemented. If it is, as some suggested, a “blurred image”, a sketch that gets more details as you come close, then it may not be simply a black screen at the start. When we choose part of the map for settling on map screen, we see the “rough sketch” - might as well translate it to the game itself. Like it’s not a black screen at the beginning, it’s “somewhere here should be mountains” and “somewhere here should be a lake”. It’s like if a passing caravan or a traveller described it to us, inspired a group of hearthlings to grab their tools and find the place they’ve never seen with their own eyes.
So in the end there is this hill we were aiming at digging in. It’s just we don’t know his exact shape or size on the very start - we discover it after we actually get to it on the map.
How about that?

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I can’t love this idea more!!!

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the idea of a hand drawn map just to give you a vague idea of the landmarks? that would work too and go with the storybook theme

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I like this development! Exploration through fog of war would be a great addition to the game.

My suggestion is that we tie exploration to community building so that when the town has a certain value and food stocks then new hearthlings are found through exploration, rather than by wandering in to town.

Great work, thank you!

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I like the idea that exploration would be necessary to find new Hearthlings :slightly_smiling_face:

My ideal fog of war would be:

  • nothing shown until discovered (other than maybe general description)
  • areas around building and Hearthlings are discovered and are kept fully updated
  • areas that have been discovered, but are not being updated stay the same until they are refreshed by a Hearthling passing by

My reasoning is that once an area has been discovered, it can’t be undiscovered, just updated.

Enemies will only be visible within the line of sight of Hearthlings or buildings.

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Buildings clearing fog of war and having line of sight would definitely give more reason to build them. I like it!

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A tower with someone in it should have the clearing Fog of War perhaps with a bigger radius due to elevation but a tower in itself without someone in it, i think thats just strange. Trip-wire alarm for the Engineer to create that will set off a sound for us to react too incase of an attack could work and set the heartlings to run to a safelocation (Grey Flagpole) and also alert the Guards to run towards the area.

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I like the fog of war idea. I would like the field of view to be bigger unless all hearthlings are near-sighted. I’d put a vote in for a Scout class that can move quicker and see far.

For the job talismans being scattered around the map, I would vote No. The concept doesn’t make sense. The hearthlings can build houses but not a wooden hoe or mallet? Why not have an adventurer class that can go out and find unique dungeons, monoliths and items? You have the RPG elements in the game that would fit well with an adventurer class.

Also, carpenters seem to be the back-bone of any settlement.

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Whoever had the talisman-lost-in-the-wild idea should be fired immediately put some more thought into designing game mechanics next time. Have you guys lost your minds? I’ll back up all the code from A22.5 as soon as I’m back so I can remove this ridiculous thing with a mod if it becomes part of SH (apparently it won’t, what a relief).

Fog of war - yes, but this? One of the biggest advantages of SH was the fact starting offensively was not necessary like in other games. Wanna make Footmen the heroes? Make the monsters attack from the darkness more often, add some more elaborate quests (The Goblins have imprisoned a Hearthling, fight them to get the new citizen!) but don’t force people to focus on them as it makes starting phase more repetitive.

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read before you post.

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