I’ve come to realise the need for some kind of leveling without crafting stuff that you don’t need. Be it your top carpenter is killed or you just need two top masons to build gargoyles.
I think all classes have this issue and it is solved by “training”.
take a footman he could train on a dummy to get experience.
A carpenter could consume X amount of wood and time “training” and some times you’d get nothing back other times you’d get a crafted item to sell and experience.
The mason could be similar
The weaver could attempt to make a tapestry
A shepherd could practice whistling to sheep etc
I believe this would be a good way to circumvent some of the early leveling allowing leveling to be made harder when more complex recipes are added.
I guess I’m not seeing the need for this. It is prudent not to have all of your construction capabilities of a given type concentrated in a single minion, if that minion is at risk of being lost. Simply spread the work among the minions, which will essentially happen automatically anyway. If you want more minions of a given capability, then invest in developing that capability in more minions. If we start down the path of this “training”, then two things will happen: 1) advancement will have no, or too little, cost; and 2) we will turn an aspect of this game into a tedious grind. No thank you.
Besides, how do craftsmen in real life advance? They perform the tasks they’re developing the skills to perform better. There’s very little, if any, skill development in doing something that is not the thing you are actually trying to get better at doing. I see no reason to depart from that reality in this game, as I see no net gain in fun from it.
The only thing I would want, on this topic, is the ability to delete items in my stockpiles. Just outright destroy them.
First of all, you bring some great points @HamoPeche your arguments are very well formulated However I think that your and @easto1a’s understandings can still go together as long as you tweak his idea just a little.
If I understood correctly @easto1a is suggesting that we should remove the “craft to level up” and instead put a resource consumption and time for a level up. And I think that the reason he wants the feature so your storehouses aren’t cluttered by random stuff you don’t need. But if you add resource consumption and time as an alternative to crafting, it wouldn’t actually change any core mechanic it would only offer a cleaner way to level up. This doesn’t trigger your first point because it would still be the same cost but without any “bi-product”, and the second point isn’t relevant anymore because in effect your doing the same exact thing as you are now in the game.
I believe that the middle ground is the best option, but just my two cents
This is a nice alternative to apprenticeship, and to be honest, I have no clue which I like better! Perhaps this could be one of those “You decide how far you want to go with optimization” things, with the current system the least micromanagey but also least optimized, and both training and apprenticing would be steps up from that.
Off-topic: On almost every post I write, I post a link to a related post. If I ever get a title, it needs to be something like A Link to the Post… but I digress.
“and other times you’d get a crafted item…” This is what I feel makes training work as an idea. Rather than sending a crafter to help a more experienced one, you’re sending a crafter to try to make something. And is that not how people get better at stuff?
@HamoPeche in real life carpenters would learn by trying new things though thus by taking time and using resources there is a similar cost to just crafting 100 fence posts.
Think of skyrim where players just made 100 odd iron daggers to get their smiting to level up. They just ended up throwing them away as they’d never need 100 daggers.
If anyone has played the sims think painting a picture and as an example the carpenter. YI must admit I disagree with the concept of apprentices however I realise the need for some kind of leveling without crafting stuff that you don’t need.
I think all classes have this issue and it is solved by “training”.
take a footman he could train on a dummy to get experience.
A carpenter could consume X amount of wood and time “training” and some times you’d get nothing back other times you’d get a crafted item to sell and experience.
You buy the aisle (in stonehearth use up wood resources
take time to paint which gives you experience points (same but the carpenter works him magic on the wood)
after the paintings done u can either sell it or hang it in ur house (I’d like to add a third option here 1. Sell it via the trade system 2. Place the random object be it a fancy chair or statue in ur town 3. The materials are wasted and less experience is gained a smaller amount as he’ll know not to dO that again but he did fail a bit)
That is not true, the way people get better in any craft is practice. Doing the same thing over and over again. The reason for this is because as you do more repetitions you make your neural pathways larger thus your memory can access them more quickly.
May I ask what the problem with apprentices, just so I can more clearly understand what you are saying.
And again why do you need to eliminate the current build to level up system, it works hand in hand with your idea, as mentioned in my last post.
I do agree that practice makes perfect but to unlock new recipes practising old ones I doubt would work.
I don’t have a major issue with it it could work I think it might be hard to implement while keeping the feeling of tell citizens to do something n someone will rather than tell an individual carpenter to make a chair. I can just see it as a micro manage thing which doesn’t fit (this apprentice must follow this mason etc) but I may have the wrong idea
Not at all, by practice the old ones you get the skills and experience to be able to master better things. For example music, at first you start with only practicing one or two notes, and you practice those notes again and again, soon you will be able to practice a whole song, which you wouldn’t have been able to do if you would have started with a full song in the beginning. So where a certain degree of experimenting is necessary, the main advancement comes from the earlier practice.
Edit–yeah I know @naturalnuke I said it as an example.
I dislike the idea of crafters eating materials (well, they may as well be eating them) to gain experience - sure, they get better at their craft, but there’s no gain for the rest of the settlement, only a loss of resources; even if they do occasionally squeeze out something, you’d still have the very same problem you were trying to combat - a build up of items you have no use for. I think the best solution to this problem lies within a separate system - the trade system.
Instead of traders rocking up and saying “I can see by the two dozen chairs, dozen dining tables and towering piles of spare tools gathering dust in your stockpiles, you must have a skilled carpenter. So, if you can craft me 3 table for ones, the only item you don’t happen to have a dozen spares of…” if there were more of a traditional trade interface (like DF, RimWorld, etc.), where we could browse traders’ wares and our own stocks and make offers accordingly, there wouldn’t be such a big issue with useless junk piling up.
Then it wouldn’t matter that your mason needs to craft a pile of braziers to make a gargoyle, because at some point, there would be a use for those braziers, even if you weren’t placing them yourself.
@Atreyu I think there needs to be something other than tine spent for training to be balanced though and there is the potential that u get a marketable gift at the end
I definitely agree with having a resource cost to training for combat units, but what I meant was more to do with crafters (the swordsman was a bad example in hindsight).
If you’re making things with the express intent of selling them, there’s still an inherent resource cost to produce the item in the first place; there’s already a cost other than just time in order to train a craftsman, so I don’t get your point about requiring more than time for training in that situation.
Training is the idea of getting a carpenter say to gain experience without building 50 unneeded chairs instead perhaps they take time to build a prototype
this could be anything and could just waste the resources or u could get a cool unique ish item to either sell or display in ur village as a showing off tool
but what Atreyu is saying is building 10 unneeded chairs that later get sold for more resources not only gives the carpenter the XP he needs, but also gets resources you might not normally be able to get, via trade… and also gets rid of extra stuff we’ve got lying around.
Also, to be honest, as of now my carpenter and mason and weaver make enough low level things that they’ve leveled up by the time I need higher level things, in the course of normal play, anyway.
However I think that your and 