[MOD] Fortify v0.6 [A24/Beta] (now on SteamWorkshop)


#41

@JohnnyTendo, your onate stone portcullis seems to have some issues. You might want to check that all its qb models got exported correctly. Not sure if there are some other items affected.


#42

Ahh, the superior siege engine. Very nice, very nice. Now I can throw sick and deceased hearthlings over my neighbours walls :smiley:


#43

Less complicated model of sorts. No animation but it keeps the simplicity


#44

I think it might be easier to get a Stonehearthy catapult than a trebuchet. I like the old model better. Maybe something in between that and the old design.


#45

Thank you. I’m cleaning up the code and rework most of the items at the moment. So perfect timing!
My gathered modding skills are now high enough to see how much nonsense i produced. Time for some cleaning. :smiley:


#46

Would you mind go a little into detail, what’s the issue with the ornate portcullis? I can’t find anything weird on them. Actually it is one of the entities that works best :smiley:


#47

Thank you for your detailed and verry helpful feedback:

  1. I watched a few videos of fireing trebuchets and it seems like they are not tumbling compared to a catapult or balista. There are 2 points where the force is working the most. The weight and the bullet/sheep/whatever. The weight is pushed down by gravity, while the sling with the bullet is pushed upwards. Since they both use the same pivot for their circular motion, I would say, that the momentum is stabilized by itself (like the tire of a bycicle). But I’m not a physicist, so I can just guess and compare it to what I can see :slight_smile:
  2. The new Model I made is in a square-shape. But it’s not shaped like a fork…I tried and it looked weird.
  3. A bin with weights has been added. You were totally right.
  4. /5. /6. Moving the weight closer to the center makes it collide with the spool. I will try out some variations. But I’m unsure wether the spool is actually needed. Maybe some cogs instead.
    The lenght of the sling is close to it’s logical maximum. It should be about 2/3s of the distance arm-pivot / sling-pivot Blide – Wikipedia . If I want to use this formular as the maximal length, I can only add 2 voxels in length. That won’t make a difference.

#48

Happy to help and it was interesting pondering about. :slight_smile:

  1. Real, large scale trebuchets would probably fall apart if they were bouncing around like I imagine :stuck_out_tongue: so it would be more about making a more interesting and forceful animation than being realistic.That’s not to say that there aren’t forces working that try to push it forward though. Look at this video from MythBusters for example https://youtu.be/9-Hwxw4fgqk?t=65 It’s sliding back and forth on the table. Since the weight is much heavier than the ammunition it won’t be a stable rotation. If you would try attaching a weight on one side of that bicycle tire and hold it still as it spins you would probably have to struggle a bit.
    In the version you showed the effect would also be amplified since the weight is stopped when it’s at maximum speed, making it the new pivot point for the arm, which would then try to throw the whole stand forward.
    … Probably… :wink:
  2. I trust your judgement on this. I saw some images with the fork design and figured it would make it more interesting than just a straight beam, but that doesn’t mean it will look good in voxels and the straight version is probably more common anyway.
  3. / 5. / 6. That MythBusters video went through the proportions ( https://youtu.be/9-Hwxw4fgqk?t=30 ) and said the sling should be as long as the sling side of the arm. They could be wrong of course, I don’t know. The sling in the version you showed looked very short though. Look at the link you posted. The sheep should start below the pivot. But on the other hand… it makes the animation more complicated and takes up more space so it might intersect with other things in the world and so on… it’s up to you what you want to prioritize. I’m sure you figure something out. :slight_smile:

#49

You’re right, there are some forces pushing it foreward. Just remembered that ballista tutorial in “Witcher 2” where Foltest says something about “a siege weapon never hits the same spot twice”. :wink:
I guess Adams trebuchet is sliding forewards because of the slippery surface of the desk. Placing one on the ground would probably cause enough friction to prevent this.
But if one is able to code a function, that moves the whole trebuchet 1 block foreward every time it fires, that would be awesome. Unluckily I’m not that skilled (maybe just for now).
There are a lot of great ideas coming from this discussion I really have to try out.
Thanks for that :slight_smile:

I will consider looking at more trebuchet blueprints, I only took some historical ones. But since they are not that accurate, taking a look at a some more recent ones won’t hurt.


#50

Most likely yes. However, it shows the direction of the forces/movement and if you want to make the animation more expressive and cartoony (like the rest of the game) it should be an exaggeration of the actual movement. If it’s jumping/sliding the wrong way it won’t look as good. :slight_smile:


#51

To chip in on the physics of it: balistae shake because they are on the principle of a bow: energy is stored in sinew and transfered, at speed into the bolt. The “shake” is energy “loss”, so waste energy that the ballista has to handle.

Generally you will not see that kind of shake on a trebuchet . (all it does is transfer horizontal energy into curved energy. Kind of like a car engine does to a wheel)

Feedback on the old animation/model that might still apply to the new one:
Trebuchet are all about leverage principles. Big heavy thing on the short arc of the lever, smaller lighter thing on the long one so it gets a lot of speed. (because speed squared times mass is power, so you want lots of speed)
On that note: if you lower the spool and put it more on the end of the counterweight, you can have the counterweight closer in (so from left to right, spool, counterweight, arm, sheep/ammo)
The arm itsself can then stay the length it is or be lengthened slightly.

about the ammo: in your current anim the ammo starts standing on the floor, in real life it would be lying “under” the arm so it covers as much space as possible before release (lengthens the circle around the arm before release, adds more speed and power, think ancient sling)