Feedback on Loadouts Requested

Trees are widely available for ascendency.
Clay is widely available for rayaa’s

Their bonus is being able to either use wood or clay ( third race gets stone as base line ) and being able to process it early in the game.

Ok, here it comes @Brackhar. First I will post a photo of it for references sake.

Let me start out by addressing the two current races and how they function.
The Ascendancy are made only for forest biomes while Rayya’s children, only for Deserts.

This disallows either from functioning properly if not in their biome. This handicap is greatest on Rayya’s Children as the carpenter requires a smith to level up (hence being ate game) while Potter’s require a low leveled Mason, hence mid game.

Now, the first kit, is meant for a early rush/start, where food wont be a main problem - the third is aimed at an advanced start where playing relies on shopping from traders and passersby - the second is a mixture, and also features a more military/ aggressive stance.

The Ascendancy suffers little handicaps, as it is easy for it to adapt. I have tested playing with the third kit and in deserts on hard mode. Within an hour, I had potters making clay bricks and 3 footmen. I also built necessary furniture, etc.

Rayya’s Children on the other hand, suffers harsh problems as the Carpenter is far away in the “tech” tree, and will be held back, since clay is rare and carpentry the only source of survival.

The third kit, suffers greatly when the Accendency are playing in deserts, as, at least in my playing, no traders come, as with the Rayya’s Children…

The first two kits operate well in general, regardless of play style and combinations.

To give it a rating, as the system is I would give it a 7/10.

What, in my opinion can improve it is in the following:

a) Since these people would be buying their kit, and would know where they will be going, they should have the choice to get a Carpentry or Potter’s tools.
b) Secondly, the desert traders, should, even if less occasionally, arrive and offer wood and resources to the Ascendancy in deserts.
c) Thirdly, their should be the availability to customize to an extent your kit. For example, if I would want to have the 50 money, the Farmer, 12 Berries and Trapper’s knife, then this should be possible. This is taking into consideration that the items cost equal money regardless of where or when or how they are being bought.
d) Finally, it is in my opinion, that the player should have the ability, to spend the Gold stocks of each kit, to get more resources or tools or whatever they want, since it is often that it takes days before one will buy something, as the conditions would not merit it.

Another thing that will be good is to have more variety, but this is of course surely in your plans, and I needn’t put this in as a point!

With these, I hope to provide a balanced system, and hope that you will find it of use!

No Maddy…that is the biome that gives that. AND if you try not to get to hung up in my specific EXAMPLES, you will properly have a easier road to understanding what i mean?
Well dont matter if you do or not, i am not here to convince you to think like me. Have a nice evening :content:

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Biomes are made to accommodate a race.

I would have to disagree there, the Ascendancy can fair pretty well in the deserts!

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While I do want to keep stressing I understand where this is coming from, currently all the evidence does suggest that this is the case. Ofcourse until further notice from Radiant we don’t even know for sure. The thing is that the dev asked for loadouts and not about races or biomes. If you can’t keep your ideas contained and separated there is little use for the information provided if you’d ask me, yet I’m trying to explain this very thing to you guys.

theres some wood in the desert and clay in the woods but really this doesn’t change anything. There’s stone as well in every map. You need those resources. But if you prefer to build clay/brick buildings you get to have a lot of clay and a potterswheel or not so much clay but still a potters wheel.

See the first talisman as the culture of the race. See it as the definition of their collective ideas. It has nothing to do with the loadouts, biomes or whatever else. It’s tied to the race and that’s it.

Sorry, but you are missing a point of discussion. One cannot talk about the butter, if one does not talk about the bread.
The same applies, the loadouts effect game style and game play. The biomes and races do too. The question in itself obliges one to consider what the loadouts effect and what effects the loadouts.

If I deside to go right now, grab a bottle of water and a basket and venture 100 miles into the wilderness because these items were presented to me and there will happen to be some bushes and an oasis or two along the way in the Sahara, I do not expect to return in all reality. By contrast, if I take a shotgun, Trappers knife and a slice of bread and go into a grassland, I am not to assume to find any sustainable food source, and my tools would be useless for farming and cultivating.

Back to the game terms, it is the aim of loadouts to help the game function alongside the biome and race.

I am not going against you, but your point (friendly discussion, I usually agree with you but hey, C’est la vie)

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So by that logic, we should only be able to choose the temperate biome together with the ascendency?
Ok if thats how it is, then we can talk purely about loadouts… but why have options to make different and interesting combination there, why dont we just have one loadout?
I guess it would be so much faster to get into the game if it was all determined how we should play the game. oh well, why dont we drop the custom templates aswell? we dont want to stray to far from the path that the developers put us on.

It might very well be that the thread was started to get feedback on the three current loadouts, but on the same time we where asked for suggestions to new ones. And when ideas begin to grow in a community they might wander a bit, but thats the smart thing!
I really dont see why you are so determined to raise your hand here?

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Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, and I’m not if it’s still in the game anymore but Rayya’s children have a relative higher mind stat than the ascendancy.
They get 1 added to there mind stat when the stats are rolled for the hearthlings. So you can’t get a rayya’s child with 1 mind. Course the stat is still capped at 6 but it means it is harder to get high body and spirit stat hearthlings at the beginning.

I feel this sort of racial different is the sort that could work well even if it is buried so the players cannot see it.

Richard mentioned this in the stream with malley last wednesday. He also said that Ascendancy have relatively higher spirit in the same manner, which I didn’t know.

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You can make it whatever you want, nowhere have I said those words or implied that thing you call “logic”.

As such you could simply keep to the thread and task at hand rather than critique parts of the game that would change the whole discussion if you had changed them. I see your issue with the one can not go without the other but in this case all you have to do is suggest loadouts in a manner than would fix the problem rather than critique things that weren’t asked.
Nowhere do I see anyone trying to improve upon what was asked but rather throw mud at things that are what they are.
I see the other guy get butthurt so I’ll leave it at this but please remember feedback requested doesn’t equal write me a new game.

All: everyone shares feedback in different ways. Please remember to discuss the content of posts, not the person writing the post.
https://discourse.stonehearth.net/faq#agreeable

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I always find myself using the Merchant loadout as there’s more benefit to it over the others simply because of the trapper’s knife. I like @Freedom’s idea of re-balancing it with either removing the trapper’s knife or adding a similar item to each of the other loadouts. I definitely think there should be a loadout for the raya’s children games that include a way to make it a bit less tedious to get a carpenter, footman, farmer, or shepherd. I haven’t delved too far into a single game yet, but possibly adding a loadout with seeds would greatly benefit them.

@YetiChow’s loadout suggestions would also fit well as far as the future Northern Alliance, and the Military conquest would give you a better chance to explore instead of just settling down, especially in hard mode.

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My other problem with Rayya’s Children is the difficulty in being able to make the shepherd’s crook, too. It requires much more time than the farmer and the footman.

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I’d have to say it’s the opposite – the races are made to fit the biomes. Now, we know from watching the Early Access progress that the races were implemented first; but when the team designed these races and biomes the biomes were fleshed out before the different kingdoms were.

To put that more simply/straightforward: they knew they’d have a desert, forest, etc. before they decided who would be living in them. With the basic idea of the biomes sorted, the different kingdoms were developed with that in mind. The biomes were then expanded upon, adding more content to support those kingdoms… but it was all done in a way to create the narrative where the kingdoms are shaped by their environment, not the other way around.

That’s the nature of development – it’s circular or twisted, ideas are created and then implemented backwards (or “worked back from”) based on what’s already there to support them. So, while what we’re seeing is the kingdom coming first and the biome catching up; when Stonehearth is finished it will look like things happened the opposite way around. We’re just not there yet.

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Why not have more sets for our styles of gameplay? I’m sure more people would want some others than the initial three.

Military Defense; 10 Jerky, 2 Wooden Swords, 2 Shields and 10 Gold. Basically to set people up with a good defense and don’t have to wait for the Carpenter to rank up. Good to have two soldiers early on so they can get that early EXP.

Iron Chef; 2 Farmer’s Hoes, 1 Cook’s Spoon, 1 Trapper’s Knife, 10 Gold. No food, but you can quickly get it and also fix the hearthlings up with cooked food early on.

Crafter’s Paradise; Mason’s Hammer, Herbalist Staff, Weaver’s Spindle, 5 Corn, 5 Hunks o’ Stone, 5 Silkweed Bundles, 5 Flowers. This way they can work for a short amount of time and still have some food to eat too.

Medical Breakthrough; Herbalist’s Staff, 2 Bolts of Leather (for the book), 15 Flowers, 20 Berries. Good for those who want to heal early on and get a fast Cleric.

Randomized; Gives a random loadout for you. For challenge/wanting to not pick since they all appeal to you.

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The Devs actually have a thread set up right after the starter kit release to ask for feedback to see what kind of kits to add in the future

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I myself have not found it, could you reply to me and set a link to me please?

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I didn’t see this either, thanks~